Thursday, September 24, 2009

Spinoza Quote...

Quoted in Moo's James commentary: "I have often wondered that persons who make boast of professing the Christian religion -- namely love, joy, peace, temperance, and charity to all men (sic) -- should quarrel with such rancorous animosity and display daily towards one another such bitter hatred, that this, rather than the virtues which they profess, is the readiest criteria of their faith."

Spinoza lived in the 1600s and was a Jewish philosopher.


Angie Van De Merwe said...

True, but not Christian specific. All people because of their differences will "conflict". This is a fact of life and of being human. And this is what freedom of expression, negotiating contracts, and agreeing to disagree is about. Why hasn't the U.N. "worked" in so many years?

Otherwise, put away any talk about justice, difference, values, and goals. And bring about a co-ercive totaltalirian regime, so that 'virtue' can flourish. (Suffering, it is supposed, brings out "faith", because it is not "seen" but hoped for).

Marc said...

As far as I can see, Christian quarrels (leading to persecution and wars) are usually over ideas and this seems to be rooted in the belief that Ideas Save - an understandable but perverted interpretation of Paul's Justification by Faith (understandable given things like Rom 10:10).

Now, if you believe that ideas save then you must fervently suppress bad ideas and the people who hold them. You must first find out what is wrong with your neighbours belief so you can save him instead of considering that it is God's good pleasure to give us the Kingdom, now what can I learn from my (Catholic, Buddhist, Muslim) neighbour?

Angie Van De Merwe said...

The very concept of 'God's Kingdom", what "faith means", and the "model of Jesus life" are ideas in one's mind, which influence behavior.

If one believes that Jesus faith in God is what is to be followed, then one will try to live as Jesus. So everyone has ideas in their minds.

What about "facts" of science? Science is tested by theories or ideas which form hypothesis. And hypothesis are tested in the labatory.

All human understanding are held in the mind as ideas, or concepts that create models of reality.

Angie Van De Merwe said...

The problem today is when evolutionists or materialists hold that hypothesis can be tested on human beings. This was done under the Nazis.

But certain secularists believe that "the greater good" of world peace can be "provided" by human's coming to understand one another.
These do not value an individual human life so much as "corporality". Religion is useful to them to bring about co-operation to these kinds of experiments.

The question facing the world today is what is of utmost importance and value and why. We will not come to agreement on that one, as there will certainly be differences of values.