Sunday, March 12, 2006

Are we a "real" denomination (1)?

1. Potential sources of identity
I want to shift my conversation slightly away from the question of Asbury or a Wesleyan seminary to the question of Wesleyan identity. Obviously if I had anything to do with a Wesleyan seminary, I would at least try to convince others of some of my ideas for Wesleyan identity.

But first of all, where in general might a renewed sense of identity come from--if it is even desirable? If I were at HQ, I think it would be a challenge to foster identity. Is LDJ helping? I think it has some potential. I'm not up to date on how it's working.

It seems like cultural factors are pushing churches away from looking to their headquarters as the sources of their identities. I get the impression that several participants in our conversation have distinct opinions on this trend. I suppose there is a possible world where the Wesleyan Church doesn't even have an HQ any more. I'm not on that band wagon. If something like that did happen, I would want some strong substitute for theological and practitional integrity.

Regular events like general conferences or (in the old days) camp meetings used to contribute to a sense of identity. Our logos conferences do foster some identity with our youth. But I wonder if in our multi-tasking, cell-phone-in-one-hand, other-phone-in-the-other-while-text-messaging, blogging, and-emailing culture, 4 years is too far apart for identity forming. Maybe even once a year is too seldom.

With the next generation, I have a hunch identity will heavily involve this electronic domain. The loose association of Wesleyan blogs I think is just one symptom of that trend. I don't know how extensive it is, but there is already an electronic Wesleyan community (with non-Wesleyans fully welcome) developing here.

I think for the last few years our larger churches have provided some sense of identity. We went through a phase where we idolized some of the larger church pastors. The identity focused on "trying to become like them." This phase seems over as far as I can tell. So maybe now we can go back to remembering that Wesleyans believe in women in ministry, now that we're no longer promoting mega-church pastors who boast about how they would never be caught dead with a woman on their staffs.

I believe that strong personalities and "flavor" personalities also provide identity to movements and denominations. Take Wesley--not perfect, but what a personality! They can be anywhere, whether at an HQ, church, college, or wherever. We need more of these. Hey, we could have Wesleyan trading cards, each with a super power on the back and super suit with their head in it on the front. The Drurinator? OK, maybe not.

Ideology can form identity when it becomes "our watchword and song." I personally can't think of any specific ideology that I think will do the job today. I don't think the idea of holiness will unite the denomination. There are other denominations that hold that in common with us. Common stories are one of the strongest identity formers--but we're almost ashamed of our stories, which often involve adventures in legalism.

And to me, the emergent Wesleyans seem to have more of an anti-ideology, anti-identity edge than an identity that could serve as a new core. In this phase they seem to be deconstructing rather than constructing identity. So we could become activitists for the merger of pan-wesleyan denominations or become a collection of historically related independent churches.

Educational institutions can have personalities and provide identity. I would say IWU could become an identity focus for a hefty portion of the Wesleyan church, particularly in the northern half of the U.S. But it might never serve that function for the SWU and Bartlesville crowds. And that might apply to an IWU-focused seminary as well. We could work more intentionally to focus regional Wesleyan identity around the respective colleges.

And for flavor, I've never really viewed Houghton as a denominational college--I've usually thought of it more as our contribution to broader evangelicalism. In one sense, I would say Houghton actually has the strongest self-identity of any of our schools. While my impression is they are not internally unified, they have a strong sense of cohesion vis-a-vis everyone else...

By the way, I think having fun with ourselves--with all our quirks--can build identity. Houghton's our "smart" brother who knows he's smart and tries not to let on we're his brothers :) We have two economics professors here at IWU who both have very strong personalities and yet strongly disagree with each other. If I were IWU's president, I would lasso them and put them on show like a circus, "Aren't these guys great? Can you believe these guys!" I'm telling you, trading cards!

So should we work to consolidate a Wesleyan Church identity? If the answer is no, then we should try either to merge with other denominations with whom we might find one or we should dissolve away into a collection of individual churches or we should move to become an association with some theological or practitional commonality.

If the answer is yes, then we should be intentional about fostering that. Identities form around stories, rituals, institutions, beliefs, etc.

We need to get a story that at least recasts our story to this point. In the next few weeks I'll recast a few bits of the Wesleyan story as a small episode in the story of Christianity and salvation history. I'll try not to make it too much like the mural at Houghton that has creation, Abraham and Isaac, the crucifixion and resurrection, the founding of Houghton, the final judgment... :)

We have some beliefs, but they're morphing somewhat. I personally feel that holiness, long thought dead, has been reforming in a chrysalis and is beginning to reemerge with a new look.

Meanwhile, institutions like LDJ and our educational institutions are creating small sprouts of renewed identity. Enthusiasm for a seminary under construction might also rally the troops. Construct it somewhat publically to get denominational buy-in. Get all the seminary outcomes out in the open in the public domain. Get rumbles going: "Wow, I didn't realize our church taught that?" or "Wow, why didn't someone mention that when I was in seminary?" I think the founding of a Wesleyan seminary could be another identity shaping story.

And lastly, I suggest that someone, somewhere create a Wesleyan Church intranet, an internet island whose freeware could be downloaded by any Wesleyan from GS to laychild. Each district could have its own folder with its own concerns. There could be theological and practical chat rooms and table talk threads. There could be a "confessional" folder that would link you to an expert, where pastors or anyone struggling with sin could find counselling and repentance with anonymity. The whole denomination, on an intranet.

What are your ideas?

26 comments:

David Drury said...

Good questions and suggestions, Ken, on our identity.

To contribute to your list... I'd add my experience sitting through two days of District Board of Ministerial Development meetings last Monday and Tuesday. Add to that the day long seminar I held with some of our ministerial students last Saturday on "The Call."

I was struck during that process by how in general the "next generation" of Wesleyan ministers are really a dissonant chord played alongside much of our past Wesleyan identity. These meetings were mostly encouraging and affirming to the ministerial canidates--one meeting was halted to lay hands on and pray for a canidate. However, I have the growing sense that the next generation of ministers will shape the identity of TWC in ways that constitute more than just nuanced changes. I wonder if in 20 years they will be leading us in wholesale changes in identity. Some of that will be recapturing old identities we lost (social action anyone?). But some of it isn't on our radars at all.

Some people fear that. I'm excited about it.

Nathan Crawford said...

I think that remembering our history is important, especially why we were founded and by whom we were founded. We also need to remember that it was our social holiness that really made us distinct. We've completely lost that. I'd love to see us in a place of being doctrinally orthodox and socially radical.

On another note, I wonder if a construction of a common liturgy - think Book of Common Prayer - might foster an identity?

Anonymous said...

Why on earth with mainline denominations who use a set liturgy going down the tubes, would anyone think an evangelical holiness church adopting a set liturgy would create identity? It certainly hasn't done for the ECUSA or the PCUSA etc, etc, etc
Can't we as holiness people create an indentity that is true to our history not someone elses? I know Wesley was an Anglican, but the Anglicans through the Methodists out and our DNA came via the holiness movement I think that needs to be taken into account.

Nathan Crawford said...

First off, I would argue that it is not because of a liturgy that mainline denominations are "going down the tubes." I would argue that it is because of a lack of belief in anything (they've become Unitarian for the most part) and also the felt need to build mega-churches or get lots of people in the door. Lastly, I'd say that some of the fastest growing denominations in the U.S./world are liturgical, i.e. the Orthodox church.

Next, I'd say that the discussion was about creating identity. A common liturgy seems to create some sort of identity among its people. I'd even argue that Wesley did it with his sermons and then also did it with the common questions asked in the bands (I think. It's been awhile.)

Lastly, I'd say that it is necessary to see our roots in the whole of Christianity, not just the holiness movement. I'd argue (and will in an upcoming paper) that the holiness movement extends back to the early church, especially the Greek side. Holiness is definitely on the minds of Origen, the Cappadocians, Macarius, Irenaeus, etc. etc. This is where I would like to begin drawing the "holiness movement".

Ken Schenck said...

Nate, you probably know that I lead what I would consider an "emergent" + "liturgical" service at College Wesleyan. And I think for the Anglican Church, liturgy is probably the single most unifying thing for the church. I don't see many Wesleyans going for any overall liturgy of that sort, but I do think "rituals" (especially if you don't call them that) can contribute to identity. The footwashing practices of the Brethren do this I think. If I ever wrote the "Salvation service" I mentioned a while back, that might be something unique and flavoring. So I think these kinds of things can contribute to identity-formation, even if I imagine we'll do Native American dances before we'll have a common liturgy :)

theajthomas said...

I could go fo a limited liturgy. I don't think people want the entire service to be read but i think having certian elements that are repetative on some schedule could help. I any sense I thin traditions are important. I'm from the Atlantic District and I would dare say we have the strongest (not perfect but...) sense of identity as a district of any ion the denomination. I think if you really want to address this issue then a study of the atlantic disctrict would be agood place to start. Not so people can be like us or do what we do but to see some of the basic prinipals in action.

theajthomas said...

PS Ultimatly the best solution to all of our issues is to elect Drury as pope of the wesleyan church

Ken Schenck said...

Ha--I'd love to hear some of the things that you think give the Atlantic district a strong sense of identity.

By the way, I liked the theory of LDJ, pastors with strengths in one area mentoring other pastors. Those things create group cohesion. Any reports on how it is or isn't working?

Jonathan Dodrill said...

Mr. anonymous, you're right, half of our DNA came from the holiness movement. The other half left the greater Methodist Episcopal Church, mostly for social issues. I'm not too comfortable saying that we just came from "tree-barkers" and "aisle-runners."

Ken and others, do you think we could ever find our identity in cutting edge social issues like our forefathers? Or is that just some idealistic hope from a young Wesleyan?

S.I. said...

I think I may be located in the Atlantic district (considering I am 10 minutes from the Atlantic--aren't you jealous?!:-) and I'll be honest, as a non-Wesleyan, I hadn't heard of the denomination until I started looking at IWU. I don't know if Wesleyans want to be known, but hey, this area of the country (NYC/Jersey area) could still use some churching-up (obviously not just churching, but changed lives). I know there's a Wesleyan Arms in Red Bank, NJ (by my house), and I've often wondered if that really has anything to do with Wesleyans. It sounds like an artilery reserve, like Wesleyans standing around protecting American weaponry. Perhaps this doesn't mean anything to any of you, or doesn't measure up to your preferred level of intellect--in that case, excuse my facetious meanderings to this post!

Ken Schenck said...

Facetious meanderings are welcome or else I won't be allowed to write on the blog either. I will say that the old time Wesleyans didn't believe in the right to bare arms--shirt sleeves needed to cover sensuous elbows.

Jon, I think the return to social holiness is something I couldn't stop if I wanted to (darn it... just kidding, and hope the language doesn't offend the Wesleyans I mentioned in the previous paragraph). It reminds me of my scintillating lecture on paradigm revolutions. One day not long from now I'll be dead and then it won't matter what I think. Social holiness is on the rise in the church and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it.

P.S. What's a tree barker?

Jonathan Dodrill said...

Tree-Barker: One who, in a state of holy ecstacy, will bark like a dog to scare away the devils. Also known as "Treeing up the devil." See Drury, I payed attention. Believe it or not, I've even seen it at holiness camp meetings when I was a young'un. And we're the same group who doesn't like speaking in tongues! HA! I'd better shut up now, don't want to start that conversation.

By the way, can you blame me for hoping for social holiness? after all, I am a "world-changer"!

theajthomas said...

I'm to lazy/busy/busy now because I was lazy earlier to go into tons of detail here but I would say that the two biggest influences on the atlantic districts sense of identity on unity would be:
1. Camp Meeting: Beulah first and foremost but also Riverside and Caton's island. I guess the fact that we have three makes it pretty clear that it's a big deal. if the rumors are true we have one of the only camp meetings that is still consistantly growing every year. Maybe we are just behind the times.
2. BBC: This is more a factor for pastors but it's still pretty important to the general district. We all went to the same school, we all graduated from the same place, those of us who are close in age at least had the same profs and probably attended the same time and because of the size of the school know each other pretty well. I look forward to district conferance each year. Not for the statistical reports or the oh so inspiering state of the rest of the church address but because I know i will see all my college buddies.
Strong and Respected District Leadership: You are hard pressed around here to find someone who doesen't like and respect HC Wilson. I think that is a huge part of it. Not because it's HC specifically but because there is a leader we all feel pretty comfortable getting behind. If we are going to have a denomination headquarters and leaders people need to feel like those leaders are awesome and that there ministry is risched because of them. People feel that way around here about Dr Wilson and it helps. I think most people see the good folks in Fishers as irrelevant. That's a whole other discussion though

theajthomas said...

PS Drury for Pope - General Conferance 08

Ken Schenck said...

Yep, sounds like identity. I visited Bethany back in the 90's when my brother-in-law Dwayne Winterberg was teaching youth ministries there. There's one argument for a Wesleyan seminary, by the way. We Asbury grads do have common experiences too, but they are Asbury more than Wesleyan experiences.

theajthomas said...

I was there studying under him then. Neat.

Matt Guthrie said...

Interesting that AJ should mention BBC as a common link for his district's identity. And I have heard a lot about Beulah from buddies who served there.

Here in NC East, SWU seems to be a uniting link among its grads. I'm an outsider there b/c I am a state school grad. I think though the notion of our identity being developed on a district level is evidence, if only anecdotal, that we are moving more and more towards a decentralized church. One of the efforts of the district leadership here is to renew a greater sense of district identity. In fact, the loss of Kernersville Pilgrim College, our own district school, has been cited as one of the reasons we lost some of that unity and identity.

Regarding LDJ, I don't see it providing much in the sense of denominational identity. It does provide common stories and mutual support among pastors. It actually seems to foster more cynicism towards Fishers than anything else.

ONE, count them, ONE, strong leader, translated GS, can help with the denominational identity. Our general leadership looks too much like a congregational style leadership with a group of leaders. Despite the rebellion against corporate type leadership, we need one go-to guy. Before anyone blogs that God holds that position, Jesus put us in charge when he left. Let the GS then motivate and empower the DS who does the same for the local pastor.

Yes grass roots efforts seem to have the most immediate impact, but people by and large want to belong to something that has strong leadership. Can we say Willow Creek or Saddleback? You can even put in your favorite Wesleyan church from any town in America that has more than one, but the one with the strongest leadership attracts the greatest following.

Not that any of the other suggestions are bad either, but the strong leaders could provide energy to implement those.

Anonymous said...

IDENTITY HAS TO BE MORE THAN APING THE ANGLICANS!

I think the trendy rush down the Canterbury trail at the moment by many in the Wesleyan church will have negative effects to our identity in the long run.
Despite all the talk about the emerging church being missional and using liturgy to reach the contmporary pomos, the truth is every one I've visited has been filled with digruntled Christians from legalistic churches and academics. I don't see much mission to the truly pagan in the EC. The pagans I know think the idea of repeating the same thing every week or parroting words after some guy up the front is about the most unspiritual thing they have ever heard of. Its interesting that one of the most missionally effective of the emerging style churches, Mosaic in LA, never uses liturgy of any kind, so I don't think just cause you are trying to reach POMOS you need a prayer book!
As for the Orthodox church being fast growing, don't make me laugh. Its growth is parasitic, its from among those young (and not so young) disgruntled evangelicals. Let's see how many of them stay with the Orthodox church!
I believe there is an essential link between liturgical churches and liberalism. People who focus on liturgy eventually get caught up in form rather than meaning, what becomes more important is the liturgy rather than the faith it is meant to express. So ECUSA is united round their liturgy but its optional whether you actually believe it or not. Most of the bishops who lead the liturgy don't believe it. Is that a road we really want to go down?
I am not saying the holiness movement is the only DNA the Wesleyan church has in its blood but it worries me that too many people want to remove that important strand of DNA all together and pretend somehow we came direct from the Anglicans! Its like they are so inteligent now they are ashamed of the roots of the church among ordinary working folk.
I hear this argument all the time that liturgy produces more mature well gounded Christians, frankly I think that is crap. If it were true the liturgical churches of Europe would never have gotten in the state they are in today!
I think the radical social action is a much more positive avenue than aping the Anglicans.

Kevin Wright said...

I must disagree with Mrs./Mr. Anonymous that people who worship through liturgy eventually become too focused on form rather than meaning. I think that statement is pregnant with a dangerous reductionism. As for identity, I am for a church that promulgates the message of holiness while at the same time realizing that true holiness gives birth to tangible works of charity. Radical social action not undergirded by a doctrinal ethos will only give you a secular social movement. However, radical social action grounded in doctrinal commitments will give you the Church. Liturgy, just like any form of worship, can be useful for teaching. No one is advocating "aping the Anglicans" but rather realizing that a common liturgy is just one part of forging a denominational identity. Becomming to myopically focused on any one component of change risks vitiating the entire project. In other words, we can have liturgy to remind us who we are and radical social change to prove to us who we are.

Ken Schenck said...

I would say it takes a good deal of regular effort and intentionality for liturgy not to become mechanical ritual, although I would insist that every week in our cathedral service thus far at College Wesleyan has been meaning-filled for its attenders. I do find it hard work to make the words "first time statements" every week, but it can be done.

But I wouldn't expect or want all Wesleyans to enact the kind of liturgy we do in that service, let alone to follow a book of prayer slavishly (I actually vary things when it seems to be getting too mechanical). It would be a completely new identity for almost all Wesleyans and one most would resist. Not all can be eunuchs for the kingdom of God :) It will always be a few, and I'm frankly just glad it's allowed.

I don't think liturgy = liberal (especially since the most conservative churches have their own unwritten liturgies... and cue testimony from sister so and so). And in a very strange way, there are a lot of people out there who in their heads are nearly atheists but who are hanging on to Christianity by nothing but the thread of the liturgy they knew as a child. And at least for that I am grateful.

Jo said...

I say yes to the intranet idea. As for a loose association of bloggers, is there a compiled list of Wesleyan blogs somewhere out there beneath the screen's pale dim light? If yes, do share, please. (I've been to the blogs of many of you "more well-known"-surnamed Wesleyans, but I just wonder if there is a list that has a few more "not-so-known" voices?).

Also, a caution: If we focus too much on using our institutions [read: schools/seminaries] to help define our identity I fear that we may then be in danger of idolatry. "We must save this school or ALL is lost!" The focus is too easily shifted from kingdom-esque activities [like social action and theological teaching] to the politics of preserving and "building" the institutions that we believe define who we are. I think institutions are important, but I don't want my association with a collection of buildings and those who dwell or have dwelled in them to be the associated "icon" of my denomination.

Ken Schenck said...

Jo, do I remember right that you're at Asbury right now? The First Class system they use is basically what I picture when I mention an intranet.

Drury follows the blogs pretty carefully, so he would be able to come up with a pretty full list in our neck of the woods. Basically follow the links and you catch new trails every time. If a person connects to my blog from his or her blog, I can follow the path back to them if I happen to look at the right time.

But such a list would be a great idea. And your words on institutions are important too I think.

Keith Drury said...

What a delightful discussion… some random comments from me...

-It’s my opinion that any centralized intranet among Wesleyans is contrary to the way the Internet works, I think the informal networks that are born and then die natural deaths as new ones emerge is how the Internet works best.
-As a denomination we are approaching 40something years old and I do agree that identity is an issue...thanks for raising this issue Ken.
-I think Beulah/Bethany is a great example of Identity…along with SWU/the confedracy. Atlantic-Canada may be the best model of identity--though a bit ingrown at times--but that may be the price of identity?
-AJ, you’re kind but we don’t need tired old men (or women) as pope/ GS—I’d love to see more 40somethings or 30somethings lead us.
-I’m inrigued by the notion of a growing district identity…
-A worship form or social action identity won’t do the trick in my opinion…both these are general trends and not denominational…they are merly the “Church growth movement” or “mega-church movement” of tomorrow..I agree with you, Ken, they can’t be stopped but I doubt either will be universal or unique to Wesleyans.
-I think the wholesome and thoughtful discussion I just read above illustrates the maturing of Internet discussion from the adolescent sour griping and complaining it may have started with to the positive construction we see here—that means something for the future that leaders must contend with and engage (Kudos to Kerry Kind on that)
-Half of this list I just typed is probably hogwash—I just don’t know which half ;-)

Jo said...

Dr. Ken, yes, you've remembered correctly. First Class is a handy system.

I think Dr. Drury makes a good point about intranets being unnatural...I hadn't thought of that.

Also, I want to clarify that I am not anti-seminary; I am cautious.

theajthomas said...

Keith - I smiled when you mentioned that the Atlantic District can be ingrown. Although it may be true, we more often feel like we are cut off from and ignored by the general church. I'm sure there are many factors in that not the least of which is geography. I think another aspect of our identity is the whole Reformed Baptist thing.

theajthomas said...

PS - Drury for some sort of figurehead position that still lets other younger people do the actual leading of the church...
Drury for GS 08