Reponse on Women 4

Dan:
It is so well established exegetically that any attempts to deny these clear teachings require the type of violent methods that, rigorously applied, will spare nothing of the epistles.

Ken:
As far as I can tell, there are only two places in the New Testament that come anywhere close to an argument against women ministering to men: 1 Corinthians 14 and 1 Timothy 2-3. The bulk of Paul's writings and Acts would more lead us to see women teaching/ministering from time to time without gender being raised as an issue (e.g., Priscilla to Apollos in Acts 19).

Since the principles (next post) are on the side of full ministry by women, we will want to look carefully at passages that "minutely" might seem against the idea. I say minutely or mechanically because opposition to women in all roles of ministry goes contrary to spiritual common sense--not pagan common sense. I believe this is another example of Judeo-Christian values working themselves out in our culture.

So we will want to look at these passages very carefully to see whether they in fact mean what some say they mean and to what extent their teaching was culture-specific or universal/timeless.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35
There are some textual problems with these verses. They are in different places in the manuscripts. They interrupt the train of thought on prophecy in chapter 14. There are several shifts in referent like church of Corinth to churches of God (since Corinth isn't a churches but only a church, singular, why would Paul give a command here to churches?). It shifts from a reference to females to a masculine form of the word alone. But I'll presume these two verses were in the original text of 1 Corinthians for the sake of our discussion.

"Let women be silent in the churches."

What kind of silence does Paul have in mind? He has already discussed issues relating to women praying and prophesying with their heads uncovered in chapter 11. Yes, that chapter affirms husband headship in its argument, thus implying that these women were married. Since you prophesy to others and he is addressing worship related behavior, Paul must assume in chapter 11 that wives can legitimately pray and prophesy in the church. Indeed, part of the problem at Corinth is probably that these wives were disgracing their husbands by prophesying in church around other men without a veil to cover their hair. They were prophesying in front of other men while wearing string bikinis without their wedding rings on.

So whatever 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 means, it cannot refer to spiritual speech in church. Otherwise, Paul would contradict himself massively in the space of three chapters. The fact that these women are asking questions of those prophesying leads me to believe that they are disrupting the worship. Paul says for them to ask their husbands at home if they have questions (14:35).

In this case, it is really bad exegesis (I'll give it a D since I grade easy) to suggest that these verses are a prohibition of women speaking in church in a spiritual way. You will only come to that conclusion if you came to the text with it in hand. 1 Corinthians 11 addresses a problem based on women speaking spiritually in the church and Paul's solution there is not to tell them to shut up.

And, to coopt some of Paul's words to the Galatians, even those who oppose women preaching in church don't oppose women speaking in church (e.g., they'll bring women "in their place" like Mary Laslo, Elizabeth Elliot, etc; cf. Gal. 6:13). There are of course some wackos out there who don't let women speak at all in a church, but they also shoot abortion doctors and drag homosexuals behind their pick up trucks. In short, that type are hell bound and I couldn't care less what they think... unless of course they decide to kill me in the name of Christ. Then of course I'll admit that they dwell on a far more spiritual plane than I do.

1 Timothy 2:18-15
Before I start this notorious passage, I want to remind us of universal evangelical hermeneutics: 1) first read the text in its original context, 2) find the timeless principles in the passage, 3) reapply them in our context. I've already mentioned that it is not appropriate simply to apply biblical texts blindly to our situation since they weren't written directly to us (as the Bible's books say, so you're disagreeing with the Bible itself if you disagree with this claim).

First, I think it is most accurate to the original connotations to read this passage with a fundamental conception of women-as-wives in view. I would say that the book throughout does not really think of women as self-sufficient or free standing individuals (Paul does do this sometimes in his earlier letters). Rather 1 Timothy primarily views women as individuals defined in relation to a man.

Accoridingly, the only man to which the Bible ever says a woman is in subjection to (2:11) is to a husband (not all men in general), demonstrating that Paul is thinking of wives in this verse. And Paul's justification for a woman not teaching a man all comes from the husband wife relationship of Adam and Eve (e.g., 2:13). The woman is saved from transgression by childbearing, which presupposes marriage (e.g., 2:15). I hope you get the distinction I am making. This passage may not wholly address women as wives, but it implicitly defines women as wives (underlying assumption: women are individuals whose identity is a function of a husband). I believe these assumptions contrast with the assumptions of other Pauline passages like Galatians 3 as well as Acts 2.

The words for man and woman in this passage also mean husband and wife, and we should generally expect them to have these connotations when they are nearby each other. Thus 2:8 begins with mention of men (who do seem to be understood as free standing individuals), but then procedes to women (whom I think are conceived primarily as people defined in relation to a husband). 1 Timothy has some rather startling words to say about "unattached" widows in chapter 5--the basic idea is that women become busybodies if they are unattached to a man (5:13). So young widows best remarry or they will just end up losing control and giving in to their sensual desires (5:11).

So young women and young widows need to be subjected to the healthy life of a wife and a woman should only be unattached if she is an old widow. By the way, this chapter really doesn't sound like the Paul of 1 Corinthians 7. Something seems to have changed between then and now--perhaps the very situation behind this letter. And presumably that's good exegesis, given that the overwhelming majority of those who are competent to make a judgment and don't have a theological ax to grind have concluded the same thing without debate in a guild where you make your reputation by debating.

In short, there's something going on in 1 Timothy with regard to women, and it's leading Paul to go way beyond anything he says in his other writings. In particular, I notice in 2 Timothy 3:6 that Paul points to certain "weak willed women" as conduits of false teaching.

Secondly, the difficult logic of 2:12-15
Here is the logic of the passage:

1. Wives (women?) are said not to teach or lord over a husband (man?) because

2. Adam was made first, then Eve (argument from "birth order"). Therefore, the husband has the authority of the first born.

3. Eve was deceived (not Adam, implied) and thus women in general are more gullible and more prone to deception than men, more prone to lead their husbands astray. Therefore, wives should not teach their husbands because they are more likely to lead them into heresy and deception.

4. But women are saved from Eve's transgression through childbearing, as Genesis 3:16 mentions, if they live a modest, faithful, holy life. In other words, if women are in their proper place in the family and in relation to their husband in particular, then they are released from the disgrace of Eve's sin.

Did you wince? It's hard for me to believe that any spiritual Christian would not wince at the logic of this passage. By faith I submit to the belief that God approved of this message to Paul's context at this time. But that doesn't automatically mean God wants us to apply it directly to our context any more than we stone our rebellious sons.

And don't give me some half way, cop out interpretation of these verses. This is the most obvious logic given the grammar. If you're going to whine about me not listening to the passage, let's really listen to the passage rather than going half way.

Here are some things that I find very difficult about this train of thought:

1. I imagine that in Paul's day women were more likely to be deceived than men, so I affirm by faith that God let this text stand in relation to Paul's context. After all, women were hardly ever educated and spent most of their time sequestered inside.

But this is not the case in our world. It simply isn't true and there's no denying it. I promise you that the GPA's of my female students far outweigh those of my male students. On average my female students are more mature, wiser, and more responsible than my male ones. In short, it would not be true to say that wives are always more likely to lead their husbands into deception today than the husbands are. I promise you that the average in-touch-with-God-ness of our congregations is way higher for the women than the men.

2. If we take these comments too timelessly, we have a blasphemous statement. The Greek is worded like this: "the wife/woman has come to be in transgression, but she will be saved through childbearing, if they remain in faith and love and holiness with modesty."

The most straightforward reading of this train of thought (understandably one that many resist) is that Eve was deceived and "has come to be" (perfect tense) in transgression. In other words, women came to be in a state of transgression when Eve sinned, a state that has continued into the present time (the usual connotations of the perfect tense). Nevertheless they (shift to all women/wives) will be saved (presumably from that state of transgression) by childbearing (the punishment God attached to Eve's sin), on the condition that they are remaining (present tense) in proper behavior.

So what are we saying here, that Christ did not atone for all sin, only for the sins of Adam? I thought that with one sacrifice Christ has forever atoned for sins (Heb. 10:14). We can't change the painful childbirth of women, but why would we intitutionalize a penalty for sin if we believe Christ's death atoned for all sin? And further, given the clearly context-bound nature of the argument here, should we really make it the cornerstone of our perspective on women, a verse that implies Christ did not actually atone for all sins?

We must take this passage as we take so many images in Jesus' parables--as somewhat exaggerated speech. Sure, women continue to live out the curse of Eve in a painful childbirth. But if we take this comment any further, we have entered the realm of true blasphemy.

So I'll hear nothing of those who would make these verses the cornerstone of a theology of women, especially when we have at hand biblical principles that stand more in the center of biblical theology (next post).

I would go further. It is one thing if you don't really understand why but feel like you need to submit to your understanding of these verses. But I think you have a spiritual problem if you delight in these verses.

1 Timothy 3
I would not expect Paul to factor women into the equation of church overseers in 1 Timothy 3, given the underlying antagonistic tone of the letter toward women's "weaknesses" vis-a-vis those of men. And I'll be glad to defend that claim to those who want it both ways--that Paul really is being positive toward women here, just setting down specific roles. If you argue that, forget your wife, I have some waterfront property I'd like to sell you, you weak-willed, easily deceived, busybody of a man or woman who can't help but give in to sensual desires.

But I also want to point out that Paul does not forbid women overseers here either. And even though I think Paul also presumes male deacons in this chapter, in Romans 16 he calls Phoebe a deacon. Indeed, if Junia is a notable apostle in Romans 16:7, then he calls a woman an apostle, a role that trumps any of the roles in 1 Timothy.

Conclusion to these passages:
So what is the original meaning, the timeless principles, and the reapplication of these passages? For 1 Corinthians it has to do with church order and affirms that women can speak in prayer and prophecy in church in front of other men. I find nothing in 1 Corinthians or any letter other than 1 Timothy that has any comment that even comes close to forbidding women from any ministry role.

In that sense, 1 Timothy reads significantly differently from Paul's earlier letters in many categories (e.g., vocabulary, style, self-depiction, understanding of law, approach to church structure, default positions on marriage versus singleness, not to mention his comments on wives and widows). It is only sloppy exegesis that does not notice how different 1 Timothy is across the board from Paul's earlier letters. And yes, this is what the overwhelming majority of New Testament scholars think (who were you reading? someone interpreting the book according to certain preconceived theological categories?).

The principles we apply from 1 Timothy 2 largely have to do with heresy in the church. But taking more key NT passages into view (next post), we must be careful to apply the principles both to men and women. Men can be deceived by heresy too--they can drag their wives in the wrong directions too. Other general principles have to do with order in the church and guarding the "deposit" of the saints. I said in the last post that I can live with husband headship as a timeless principle as well as a possibility.

But in the light of far more central principles of the new age, I cannot live with any application of these verses to the question of women in general taking roles of authority or instruction or ministry when God leads them. I believe the final entry will make it clear that 1 Timothy 2 is really a rather unusual outpost in the NT rather than a stop on the main thoroughfare.