Stupid me, I had always assumed this was the wording of a verse from the King James in Proverbs. Turns out it comes from a 1664 poem by Samuel Butler. Ha!
There are verses in Proverbs that map to it, however: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell" (Proverbs 23:13-14).
Of course as Christians we would take from this verse the importance of correction and guiding your children. I think we as Christians would reject beating our children to the extent this verse probably pictures as contrary to the values of Christ in the same way that we do not stone adulterers or practicing homosexuals. The love commandment of Christ filters everything (as exemplified in Matthew 5's filtering of the OT law), and it would seem impossible to do these things in love.
[As a P.S., I might also add that the Hebrew for "hell" here is Sheol, which referred generically to death rather than to a firey place of torment. The OT has no concept of the Christian hell.]
What is also interesting to me is that this section of Proverbs actually was borrowed from the older Egyptian wisdom literature of Amenemope. That doesn't affect its Scriptural-ness, since it is in the canon. But it does speak to the need to read the Bible with the recognition that some passages do not play out in our world the way they did in other times and places.
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5 comments:
are you reading ahead in that book? ;-)
No Hell in the OT? (Certainly I agree there is no 'Christian concept' - whatever that means - certainly not a linear limitation on the nature of the time dimension - etc etc) - but Hell is there in the early Psalms - suffering, enemies, fire and brimstone, troubles, - see Psalms 7 and 11. Of course I think the ambiguity of all third person singular referents should be maintained in translation. This allows us to see how Jesus' death fulfills these condemnations.
I haven't started Enns yet, but I after your comment I flipped to see he mentions these proverbs in chap. 1!
Bob, I just don't think there's any indication in these psalms that the fire on the wicked in question is after death. It seems the old Deuteronomistic the wicked perish and the righteous are vindicated in this life (or else their descendants).
I'll see your Psalm 7 and 11 and raise you Psalm 6 and 30 :-)
Ken - thanks. I agree - who gets any praise from the dead? This aspect of 'after' is exactly what I was getting at. We humans have no clue as to how time works. The Hell I think of in the Creed is the suffering of Christ. I will have to blog on it eventually - but my brain is still integrating the 61 elementary particles, the violations of symmetry in time and matter (super string theory), and the theology of time implicit in the psalms. I played with these concepts life/after/and death and the 'Christian concept' of Hell many years ago - but the words (even the Hebrews quote: once to die, then the judgment) need some teasing out in our language ...
Here's a sample from 1999 - even I am surprised!
What is Life?
Consider this question in the light of a passage from Paul such as: "For me to live is Christ and to die gain" (Phil 1:21), or again from John (10:10), Jesus is recorded as saying: "I have come that they might have life and have it in abundance."
What is 'after'?
In John's gospel again (5:24) it is reported that Jesus said: "one who hears my word and believes the one who sent me has eternal life and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."
What is death?
We have died sacramentally in our baptism (see eg Romans 6:3, Colossians 3:3). So we are already 'after' death in a symbolic way. How does the symbol become reality? - How does it become 'incarnate' - made flesh in the way that Jesus was made flesh? From Paul (Romans 8:13) If you by the spirit to put to death the deeds of the body you shall live. This is almost a formula that can be applied in obedience - the life referred to is for now. It is not just a future promise. See also Galatians 2:20 - a saying 'squeezed out' of Paul in the midst of a severe conflict fought over persons he had evangelized in Galatia (present day northern & mid west Turkey).
These are a very small sampling of the passages that deal with questions related to 'life after death' in the first century Jewish scriptures that we call the New Testament. As you can see, they are focussed around life in Christ and death by participation in his 'baptism'.
The presence of the word 'after' in the question raises the issue of our attitude to time and our definition of 'creation'. Was time also created? Modern physics would say yes. The gospels also address this question of time. See eg, The Sadducees and the seven husbands (Matthew 22:23-32) and the transfiguration (Mark 9:2-8). In both these passages, all times are implicitly 'present' to God.
Perhaps I misunderstood your reference, but are you saying that the writer of the proverb was saying that parents should beet their children in a way that would be similar to child abuse or a beet down?
Also, if God has not changed (which He has not), how can we say that what is represented in this verse is contrary to the values of Christ? Stoning homosexuals or adulterers in the O.T. was primarily about loving and obeying God and loving the nation while dealing justly with sin and wickedness. In the kingdom, it was of greater love to deal with the sin and show the people the consequences of it rather than to “love” them and leave the activity unpunished so that others would be enticed.
That is not to say that we should today stone homosexuals and adulterers because we are not living in the Jewish Theocracy or under the Mosaic covenant.
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