Friday, November 02, 2007

Friday Review: The Triune God

Yesterday we were privileged at IWU to have Bill Placher here for our Fall Colloquium. He presented the basic thrust of his recent book with Westminister John Knox, The Triune God. I was a last minute substitute on the panel, so found myself doing a quick read of this very readable book the other night. It covers a good deal of ground and is a really good book for someone who wants to get from 0 to 60 on theology in relation to the Trinity. I lent my copy of the book to a student, but was able to reconstruct my main thoughts here.

First, as a relative novice to the contours of contemporary trinitarian debate, I found a good deal that was helpful to me.

1. For one thing, Placher suggests that it is much easier to move from discussion of the three to a discussion of the one, where if we start with the one, we will have difficulty getting to the three. I found this very helpful. It is thus no surprise that after the first chapter, he goes straight to the Word, the Son, Christ. The next chapter then proceeds to the Spirit. Like Barth, the Son is the key place to start. He also believes that the Eastern Church is right to use threeness rather than oneness as the starting place. He pays a good deal of attention to the Cappadocians, indeed I would say more to them than to Augustine.

2. He seems sympathetic to negative theology, as I am to some degree. Another take away from the book were comments on attributes like infinity, simplicity, etc. telling us more about what we cannot affirm that about what we can affirm (we cannot affirm that God has limits, we cannot affirm that God has parts, etc...). I appreciated the apophatic approach.

I have said before that the classic statements on the Trinity tell us everything they need to say without really saying much of anything--three persons who are God, one God not three. If you can explain exactly what this means, they will make you Pope, I've told my classes before. Placher says something similar and in fact claims that this is really the point of view of the church Fathers. One take away from the book is a rehabilitation of Aquinas for me. If Placher is right, then Aquinas wasn't the "I've got it all figured out" person I had him pegged as.

Placher rehearses some of the language barriers that accompanied early debates over the persons and substance of the Godhead. Here we remember that Placher wrote the classic work on historical theology back when he was in his twenties.

3. His treatment of the Word, Christ, understandably went to the Gospels and thus involved some discussion of Scripture. We do not try to fit Scripture into our world or lives but we see ourselves in Scripture. As with Joel Green's book, one question I have is what we do when we don't see ourselves in the text, such as when the psalmist commends bashing Babylonian babies or Deuteronomy tells us to stone a disobedient son.

Where in his method (or Green's) do we find authority to process with texts that seem locked at a particular point of revelation history? What if it were to turn out that the priorities of equality within the Trinity are developments in the church and are something we do not see easily in Scripture? What if Jesus is squarely subordinated to the Father in Scripture with no sense of His ontological divinity? Of course Placher has found in Larry Hurtado a great asset in this respect, since Hurtado believes early Christian worship had already forked from standard Judaism from its earliest days.

4. I appreciated his comments about the nature of the gospels--not fiction, not myth, not history in the modern sense. They are not fiction because the writers are second or third hand witnesses. They are not myth for these are historical persons from a point in history, not gods and heroes from some nebulous past. They are not history in the modern sense for the rules were different and it seems impossible to harmonize them on the level of detail if one has any respect for what they actually say at all.

So we need not worry about the fact that the dozens of reconstructions of Jesus by scholars all feature different reconstructions of Him. Placher draws on David Kelsey to see the gospel stories (excepting the resurrection, of course, which is in a different category) as "anecdotal." These stories resonated with the early Christians as typical of Jesus. "Yep, that's exactly the kind of thing Jesus did." We can thus by-pass historicity debates by affirming that Jesus did things like these without having to prove that He did all these specific things.

5. The chapter on the Spirit seemed safe to me. The Spirit illuminates Scripture, yes? How much does He illuminate. Does He have to stick to the script. Kevin Vanhoozer amazingly says in Is there a Meaning that the Holy Spirit can blow wherever He wills in Scripture, but He cannot blow whatever He wills. I can handle a Bounds saying something like this because He would mean that the Holy Spirit will not command or allow something that violates His nature. But for Vanhoozer, this sentiment means that the Holy Spirit will not (mind you, he says cannot) reveal something different to you through the words of Scripture that violates the original meaning of the text.

6. There were a number of other interesting things in the book. Placher at one point looked over the cliff of Reformed epistemology and then stepped back. Alvin Plantinga's epistemology would have us never let our core religious beliefs be falsifiable. I resonated with Placher's sense that every belief is examinable and while it is unlikely in the extreme that even massive evidence would shake his faith, it remained in theory a possibility. Others heard his Presbyterian background more clearly than I did. Mainly, there was (like Barth) some sense of "fatalism" rather than proactiveness in working for God's will to be done, more of a que sera (pour Dieu) sera.

7. I appreciated the ecumenical concern of the book. A very nice aside on the filioque debate attempted to reconcile East and West. While the original Nicene creed read that the Spirit proceeds from the Father, the West later added "and the Son." Placher suggests we take it out, not because it does not point to a truth that could be justified in the theology of both sides, but because it simply was not placed there as a statement of the whole church.

8. Some thoughts on the gender imagery we use of God that I personally resonated with. He suggested we not tamper with the creeds and liturgies for practical reasons at the very least. There are so few things we agree on already; why tamper with one we do?

Yet he rightly recognizes that God has no genitals and thus is not literally male. He recognizes that God is not threatened in Scripture to have female imagery used of Him or His Son. Isaiah can speak of God having a womb and Jesus can be a hen trying to gather her chicks. He mentioned some experimentation such as a church in New York uses: "God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, one God, Mother of us all." I personally can't find any theological error in this statement itself, although I realize there are lots of settings where other associations make it a very sensitive issue.

So I'll commend the book to you for good reading to deepen...

16 comments:

CS Sweatman said...

Dr. Schenck,

Very intriguing post. Just based on your comments alone, I will have to make time to read through Placher's book. The subject of the Trinity (or, Godhead) has always been one of interest for me.

Jeffrey Crawford said...

Well hey, I guess my psychological background should be called into question then. I understand the metaphorical nature of attributing sexual characteristics anyway, but to refer to God as the mother of us all, even in metaphor smacks too much of Sophism and goddess worship, two topics of which I have interaction with on the fringes of the UM Church.
If we really are to stick to our traditions and to read the text for all that it is worth, I think it would behoove us stay within that tradition. i do understand the cultural impact and import for Jesus to refer to the father as such, but I also believe there is a reason for that and an important distinction that was being made in order to distinguish b/w God and the Asherah practices of surrounding - and even infiltrating cultures in Israel.
Arad does manifest itself w/ an Asherah pole w/i the holy of holies, but it would be impossible to state that it was an acceptable practice.
I'm not implying that was what you had in mind in the least, but I also don't any misunderstanding here. I'm going to have to stick with my psychologically unsound father language.
Just curious, what is the basis for such a statement? Is it only a few metaphors as well? Or am I missing the point, which given that this is midterm week, really wouldn't be much of a surprise at all!
By the way, I am in no way a close-minded chauvinist, just for the record...

Ken Schenck said...

I changed the line... it was too strong a generalization...

Anonymous said...

Eine Frage
In 4 "not history in the modern sense."--"They are not history in the modern sense for the rules were different and it seems impossible to harmonize them on the level of detail if one has any respect for what they actually say at all."

What would be the difference of the modern sense of history..and the premodern? And must I ask, is there a postmodern spin to history? At any rate, so the interpretion of Scripture on the historical angle...and the probing of Jesus on the historical level is a no-go? Is that the message that is being sent across? Because from whispers I've picked up, the general attitude I got was that taking Jesus and the Gospels from a historical point of view brings to question all sorts of problems and irregularities. Can you comment on that?

Grace and Peace,
-K. Heiple

Ken Schenck said...

Placher brings up Thucydides' famous quote on composing speeches in his history as well as the idea that ancient biographies were more interested in the characteristic than in extensive confirmation of sources. There's the sense that some creativity and artistry was involved in history telling. I recognize that Acts mentions pursuing sources, but there is good evidence of his artistry as well (such as the difference in the time post-resurrection as portrayed in Luke and then in Acts).

I am personally not averse to historical Jesus study, although Placher's right about there being an aweful lot of diversity in the resultant portraits.

Kevin Wright said...

I think it's tremendous that you got Placher to come to the Colloquium. It is wonderful that IWU is bringing in good scholars to converse with the already good scholars who fill the ranks of IWU faculty. Did one of the faculty members know Placher from somewhere or did you simply ask him out of the blue?

Ken Schenck said...

Todd Ream and Jerry Pattengale are most to be thanked, although Bud Bence did most of the correspondance with him. We have James K. A. Smith here next week and Mark Noll in the Spring, so things are good!

Mike Cline said...

Wow. I'm a little jealous. I wonder if I can make an impromptu flight to IWU. I would love to hear Smith especially.

Random question in light of this though, do any students at IWU that you have know anything about Smith or Radical Orthodoxy especially? Or is he going to talk more about Derrida and postmodernism and the church?

Not that I didn't enjoy our speakers while I was there, but I'm jealous! :) At least Hauerwas is speaking at University of Minnesota this week. That's where I'll be Thursday. Pray for my ears. Don't want to pick up any naughty habits

Kevin Wright said...

The future lecturers you just listed are outstanding and only demonstrate further the commitment the IWU religion department's has for doing good theological work characterized by deep reflection and ongoing dialogue. If things with Noll go well, you should try to snag Marsden before he officially retires. Notre Dame is a great resource to have in your back yard. I hope your students are thankful for the wonderful minds they come into contact with not only through these tremendous scholars, but also through the oustanding men and women who teach them every day.

Ken Schenck said...

I think Todd Ream led some honors students through Radical Orthodoxy last year. I'm hoping to skim it this week. It's that reformed epistemology stuff... I feel a bit like Arminius to disagree with it ever so slightly... :-)

Mike Cline said...

oh yeah, that honors college thing. Forgot about that.

Any chance you've stopped by my recent blog about hermeneutics. I ended up not doing anything dealing with Pauline thought or "finding the center" of Hebrews. Instead, I threw a thesis out there that the response of the Church to postmodernism has been a revival of Romantic hermeneutics...and we think we are doing something new and hip.

What do you think? Care to stop by?There aren't a whole lot of people out there who care enough about hermeneutics to give me an opinion.

Anonymous said...

Hi Ken,

I'm glad that you were able to host Placher, and that you'll have Noll and Smith. You'll enjoy Jamie a lot; while I find myself disagreeing with him a lot, he rarely makes uninteresting mistakes!

I'm curious about two things:
(i) do you link Radical Orthodoxy and Reformed Epistemology? Is one a version of the other, a cousin, or what? Despite some affinities, I've always understood them to be very different (and once saw Wolterstorff tangle with Milbank). I'd like to know if I'm wrong.
(ii) where do you see Plantinga saying (or saying things that entail the conclusion) that our beliefs are not falsifiable? Is he not open to the possibility of defeaters, and is he not concerned (e.g., in WCB) to deal with some potential defeaters to X'n belief?

All the best,
Tom McCall

Ken Schenck said...

Hey Tom... thanks for sharpening my categories--I'm generally prone more to see connections than distinctions. Let me lay out the process behind these lumping together of things that I'm sure are distinguishable (I can't imagine you are wrong when I'm a dabbler). I'll move backward.

2. My comment on Plantinga came from Placher's interaction with Warranted Christian Belief, which you mention. He quotes Plantinga on p. 437, where he finally concludes "Here I stand; this is the way the world looks to me."

1. Placher then proceeds from this quotation to say that "Plantinga represents the tradition of 'Reformed epistemology' in its most sophisticated current form."

From this I inferred that Placher is considering Radical Orthodoxy and such as the most sophisticated current form of Reformed epistemology, since I associate Smith, Calvin College, and friends with the two.

Placher then goes on to contrast himself with both Plantinga and Reformed epistemology in the way I mentioned, "So it is with many of the most important beliefs in my life... only the most overwhelming of evidence could persuade me. But it could happen. Nothing is absolutely beyond reexamination" (103). This led me to conclude that what he was saying here must differ from Plantinga's position.

Perhaps I have misunderstood Placher or he himself has misunderstood these others. What are your thoughts?

Anonymous said...

Hi Ken,

Jamie Smith indeed is trying to build bridges from the Reformed tradition to RO (as is Mike Horton and others); in fact he has published in their series. So I see how RO and RE are easily associated. But Jamie is, I think, in the minority around Calvin on these matters... my hunch is that most of the philosophers and theologians there are either quite unimpressed with RO or take it seriously but think that RE is superior on epistemological issues. But while some theologians and philosophers in Reformed circles are friendly to RO, some of the leading proponents of RO have been hostile to the Reformed tradition: they think that it is too modern, too "nominalist," too influneced by Scotus, etc. At any rate, RO and RE are just different critters.

As for Plantinga, I concur with Placher that he *is* the most important and sophisticated defender of RE. But I don't read Plantinga as not allowing for fallibility (indeed, it is one of the criticisms he makes of coherentism in WPF and WCD). He is a moderate foundationalist and a reliabilist, and he has room in his epistemology for potential defeaters (thus his WCB discussions of the problems of evil, pluralism and postmodernism, and challenges posed by historical-critical studies of the Bible).

Now *he* would be a catch for IWU! Invite him for his "why evolutionists can't be atheists" talk.

Blessings and best wishes,
Tom

Ken Schenck said...

Thanks for these clarifications... it makes me think I might gain a lot from asking Smith this week to differentiate his views on RO from RE in general...

Anonymous said...

I'll be interested to know how he responds. My guess is that he'll see more in common than most, and he will of course be very conversant with both (one of the cool things about him is that he is well-read in analytic epistemology as well as his own very continental/postmodern stuff).

His book on RO is the most readable summary I know of, and it is admirably charitable and sympathetic.

Best,
TM