tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post8634316847435192092..comments2024-03-28T09:52:15.415-04:00Comments on Common Denominator: God's Boss 3Ken Schenckhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-74014120884718647762010-10-01T06:35:59.780-04:002010-10-01T06:35:59.780-04:00I may not have put it well, but I didn't want ...I may not have put it well, but I didn't want to make it sound like all Calvinists are deterministic on everything (although I hear there is a joke at Princeton about the woman who fell down the stairs and when she got up said, "I'm glad that's over"). But Rick Warren's <i>Purpose Driven Life</i> does have a much heightened sense of God's involvement in things that teach us things. So if after getting strawberry ice cream, the pinkish red color reminds you of sin, then certain American Christians (who may not even be full Calvinists) might see God as leading you to that choice.Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-11003194354635685682010-10-01T06:32:05.953-04:002010-10-01T06:32:05.953-04:00I used to make similar critique of Calvinism until...I used to make similar critique of Calvinism until I learned that they are only deterministic as far as salvation goes. If an action affects your salvation, i.e. if it's a moral action, then you're bound by sin and not free to choose. So, by the Calvinist view, you do choose strawberry or chocolate, but you don't choose whether or not you will steal it. It's still ridiculous I know but they're not 100% deterministic except when it comes to heaven/hell.Marchttp://criticalBelief.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-20006270555218808262010-09-30T15:38:22.922-04:002010-09-30T15:38:22.922-04:00Paul, I take you to be taking somewhat of an open ...Paul, I take you to be taking somewhat of an open theist position. I respect that although I have never seen the need for it. I do however feel bad for all those who have been stung by taking that position. It is a conservative heterodoxy in the sense that only those who take the OT quite literally would be open theists. Some Christians with political power have confused it with process theology which indicates ignorance on their part. It is an Arminian mini-heterodoxy that only Calvinists should get their dander up over.Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-52711660420280418942010-09-30T15:12:04.059-04:002010-09-30T15:12:04.059-04:00I would suggest that God's voluntary self-limi...I would suggest that God's voluntary self-limiting does not absolve God from responsibility for evil in the world, it just pushes it back a ways. I would suggest that God's nature of love means that He is non-coercive, that is He never totally controls creation, there is always a degree of freedom for creatures. God's power is persuasive, but God can be very persuasive. I believe that His nature of love constrains Him, that He cannot act outside of His nature, therefore He is not responsible for evil. For a much better treatment I suggest The Nature of Love by Thomas Jay Oord.<br /><br />I, believe God to be sovereign, but I may have a different view of that. I really do not hold to the neo-platonic omni statements about God as they normally stand. I do, however, believe that God can do all that can be done. I believe that God knows all that is knowable. Neither of these is exhaustive, I am sure we humans can use our imaginations to conceive of things that are just not doable--like the rock so heavy He can't lift it. I believe that the future is not knowable, not for certain, God may be able to see every possible choice before us, but I do not think He can know which one we will make long before we make it. In genesis 6 God is disappointed with humanity, in 1 Samuel 16 God regrets making Saul king for acting in ways He didn't expect. Jeremiah 19 people are sacrificing children and God says such things never crossed His mind. The future does not exist and is therefore not fully knowable.<br /><br />Does my rejection of the omni statements negate God's sovereignty? No! Because creaturely freedom is not absolute,Paul DeBaufernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-59092868176819668052010-09-30T09:38:48.150-04:002010-09-30T09:38:48.150-04:00Thanks Dick. I completely agree.Thanks Dick. I completely agree.Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-73233639477287530562010-09-30T08:33:29.855-04:002010-09-30T08:33:29.855-04:00Good blog, Ken!
I would only add that, if there w...Good blog, Ken!<br /><br />I would only add that, if there were no free choice in the world, then there could not be genuine love. We would merely be puppets! It's not a bad trade off to have a world where bad things happen, so we can also have a world where true love exists.Dick Nortonnoreply@blogger.com