tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post6131719890202972411..comments2024-03-28T03:25:49.943-04:00Comments on Common Denominator: Why William Jennings Bryan Opposed Evolution...Ken Schenckhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-28653474199788664492009-06-20T14:22:02.014-04:002009-06-20T14:22:02.014-04:00I guess I can be 'anonymous 1A'to keep us ...I guess I can be 'anonymous 1A'to keep us no-namers distinct. <br /><br /> It is important to know not only the positions people hold but also on what grounds they hold them. A lot of times when we find ourselves in agreement with others about a topic, it isn't always obvious that the grounds for our agreement can also lead to problems in other areas later on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-83526268192408200642009-02-16T19:23:00.000-05:002009-02-16T19:23:00.000-05:00Is this the same Anonymous I just responded to? I...Is this the same Anonymous I just responded to? I misunderstood where you were coming from. I thought you <I>were</I> a theistic evolutionist.<BR/><BR/>Genesis 1 doesn't seem as problematic to me because even the scientific creationist approach doesn't seem to take it completely literally. For example, on Day 2, God divides waters from waters and a firmament is in the middle. But then on Day 4, God puts the Sun, moon, and stars <I>in</I> the firmament. In other words, if Genesis 1 were meant to be taken literally, we would picture primordial waters straight up above the firmament where the stars are. I don't know of any scientific creationist that could even make him or herself believe that there are waters of this sort above the stars literally.<BR/><BR/>Also, Genesis 1 doesn't mention the creation of the waters themselves. They are just sort of there from the beginning, as in other creation stories like the Enuma Elish or Hesiod's Theognis.<BR/><BR/>So I feel very comfortable taking Genesis 1 as a poetic expression in its ancient near eastern context of the fact that God created the world without opposition from other deities, that God made the world good and ordered, and why Saturday is the Jewish Sabbath.Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-84327302574661333532009-02-16T18:03:00.000-05:002009-02-16T18:03:00.000-05:00I must say. It sounds scary to me. Just how far fr...I must say. It sounds scary to me. Just how far from the Literal Biblical acount are we willing to go? Or, is this just an interpretation issue? Maybe, I'm way off. I believe Theistic Evolution it to be a dangerous veiw.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-36372756946691377662009-02-14T07:57:00.000-05:002009-02-14T07:57:00.000-05:00Anonymous, I'm not mud slinging at anyone. I am n...Anonymous, I'm not mud slinging at anyone. I am not a fundamentalist and if I have an agenda on this topic it is to help fundamentalists see that a person can be a theistic evolutionist and have a robust faith.<BR/><BR/>My comment here only has to do with Paul's statements that death entered the world through sin. Evolution requires lots of death and therefore, if death only entered the world at Genesis 3, then the theistic evolutionist position at least seems to stand in tension with Genesis 3 as interpreted by Romans 5.<BR/><BR/>How would you define theistic evolution (or interpret these passages) such that this is not an issue?Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-89702199678990433632009-02-14T04:58:00.000-05:002009-02-14T04:58:00.000-05:00I'm kind of interested in how you arrived at the c...I'm kind of interested in how you arrived at the conclusion that it is Romans 5 and Genesis 3 that "is the greater complication for theistic evolutionists, not Genesis 1."<BR/><BR/>I see nothing in those chapters that would lead anyone to such a conclusion.<BR/><BR/>Am I missing something, like possibly an accurate definition of "theistic evolutionists"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-47201595652958060042008-10-27T08:59:00.000-04:002008-10-27T08:59:00.000-04:00I was sorry to hear that he had passed. He was a ...I was sorry to hear that he had passed. He was a great man, one of the many unsung heroes of history.Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-80210221249400318782008-10-27T06:07:00.000-04:002008-10-27T06:07:00.000-04:00I missed this one until now (October 27). I found ...I missed this one until now (October 27). I found it by searching for Herbert Dongell, who is to be buried today. Thanks for your thoughts.Martin LaBarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14629053725732957599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-32630448626576666032008-04-11T15:14:00.000-04:002008-04-11T15:14:00.000-04:00Michael Kazin's biography of Bryan, A Godly Hero i...Michael Kazin's biography of Bryan, <B><A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/Godly-Hero-William-Jennings-Bryan/dp/0385720564/ref=ed_oe_p" REL="nofollow">A Godly Hero</A></B> is a thorough and fair assessment of the man's life. He was something of a transitional figure, standing at the crossroads of the historical shift from evangelical social reform movements to fundamentalist cultural retreatism. Kazin (p. 301) assesses Bryan's ironic legacy thusly:<BR/><BR/><I>In the late 1920's, most fundamentalists and other conservative evangelicals retreated from political life to build an empire of their own. The preachers and laypeople who broadcast over Christian radio stations, taught at Bible institutes, and took off on foreign missions occasionally invoked Bryan's example, but few mentioned that his lifelong purpose had been to place "the heart of the masses against the pocketbooks of a few." The curriculum at the small college named after him that opened in Dayton in 1930 was heavy on Bible studies, foreign languages, and business courses. But William Jennings Bryan University offered just one class in American history and none at all about contemporary issues. All this marked a decisive break from the century-long tradition of prophetic reform movements that Christian agitators, lay and ordained, had first created in Jacksonian America.</I>James Gibsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08020891895617539526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-76223339552107884562008-04-10T12:53:00.000-04:002008-04-10T12:53:00.000-04:00I think Keith Drury put it well in his new book Co...I think Keith Drury put it well in his new book <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/Common-Ground-Keith-Drury/dp/0898273544/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1207846214&sr=8-2" REL="nofollow"><I>Common Ground</I></A>. Christians believe that God created the universe! :-) That seems a lot like what you're saying, yes?Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-10725842069144942932008-04-10T12:33:00.000-04:002008-04-10T12:33:00.000-04:00I totally agree that nothing ever is produced in a...I totally agree that nothing ever is produced in a vacuum, not music, or philosophy or theology or theories about evolution. I haven't heard anyone mention the gap theory for a long time, in fact my pastor when I was 30 (27 years ago- an ONU and NTS grad) was the last I recall. <BR/>People like Phil Johnson would say the battle is between naturalism and some sort of Theism. I may be over-simplifying here. <BR/>Do you agree or disagree?John Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01584577160006751298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-12761438940977511042008-04-10T11:06:00.000-04:002008-04-10T11:06:00.000-04:00Thanks... it's the little foxes that spoil the vin...Thanks... it's the little foxes that spoil the vine.Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-82725891087636840712008-04-10T10:05:00.000-04:002008-04-10T10:05:00.000-04:00william jennings bryan see also Bryan's positions ...william jennings bryan <BR/><BR/>see also Bryan's positions on other issues such as pacifism. They are also quite interesting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-12843796195473106082008-04-10T00:02:00.000-04:002008-04-10T00:02:00.000-04:00The gap theory is so much a part of my world view ...The gap theory is so much a part of my world view and I have held it dear for so long that if someone should convince me some other position is more reasonable, I should be the "man convinced against his will ---."<BR/><BR/>I appreciate your sharing your insights daily in this forum!vanillahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11978025976591113499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-31515594560039331122008-04-09T22:37:00.000-04:002008-04-09T22:37:00.000-04:00(In my best Captain Kirk voice)"Mind expanding...t...(In my best Captain Kirk voice)<BR/><BR/>"Mind expanding...too fast.... Stop ... feeding my brain ...it...is...going...to....explode!"<BR/><BR/>Thanks for this Ken, great stuff!Mark Schnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00521939849864426818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-5468436178963983512008-04-09T21:05:00.000-04:002008-04-09T21:05:00.000-04:00Thanks Jon and John. By the way, be sure to check...Thanks Jon and John. By the way, be sure to check out John Drury's running commentary on the days of creation on his blog, today's entry being on the second day: <A HREF="http://drulogion.blogspot.com/2008/04/drulogions-hexameron-second-day.html" REL="nofollow">Drulogion</A>Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-88835530810140156102008-04-09T20:50:00.000-04:002008-04-09T20:50:00.000-04:00Thanks for this. Especially important line of inq...Thanks for this. Especially important line of inquiry to ask <I>why</I> someone opposes something, not just what they oppose. This tells us more about their overall perspective, and make sense of otherwise odd alliances.JohnLDruryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01120179182431573460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-88349034321330964942008-04-09T20:38:00.000-04:002008-04-09T20:38:00.000-04:00Sounds to me like Wesley has seen the Lion, the Wi...Sounds to me like Wesley has seen the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe one too many times. Oh, wait. . . . <BR/><BR/>Ken this blog is incredibly poignant and it is amazing how much our bias' and contextual circumstances seem to shape our philosophical ideas. With regards to the other side of the fence, I personally cannot help but think that if we weren't living in a supposed age of "Islamic extremism and terrorism" that the most unintellectual atheism in the form of Dawkins, Hitchens and the Rational Response Squad wouldn't be getting as much as attention as it is. Here you have a specific group of people parading as philosophers using just about every fallacy of logic known and yet they are selling books and getting their message across. You couple this with the technology of a day where you can watch the planes hitting the world trade center over and over again and after awhile switch over to Kirk Cameron and the Rational Response Squad debating the existence of God, and it isn't difficult to see what is fanning the flame. <BR/>So where do the rest of us fit in this? I think the project is a matter of recognizing our own presuppositions and questioning their validity, and by doing so we will be able to glean what we are really standing on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-58390347635477860492008-04-09T18:14:00.000-04:002008-04-09T18:14:00.000-04:00Wesley believed that in heaven each level of being...Wesley believed that in heaven each level of being would move up on the scale of being. Humans would become like the angels. Animals would talk like humans, etc. But he of course didn't see this as a line of development over time. All were created at the same time.<BR/><BR/>I'm pretty sure that some of those who first opposed evolution did so because the idea of extinction did not fit within their Christian world view.Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-6436057066157097962008-04-09T16:54:00.000-04:002008-04-09T16:54:00.000-04:00Extinction regarding Dinosaurs?And, Wesley's idea ...Extinction regarding Dinosaurs?<BR/><BR/>And, Wesley's idea of animals to humans to angels sounds evolutionary to me..?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com