tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post2729345654092863530..comments2024-03-28T09:52:15.415-04:00Comments on Common Denominator: Oh me, Oh TranslationsKen Schenckhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-60612026223887548482009-12-08T22:15:19.460-05:002009-12-08T22:15:19.460-05:00Like I emailed Moo in relation to several NIV pass...<i>Like I emailed Moo in relation to several NIV passages, why not let the interpreter decide. "notable among the apostles" is ambiguous like the Greek. Why not let the reader decide?</i><br /><br />Debated? Yes. Ambiguous? Probably not. The debate isn't about ambiguity, it's about mutually exclusive meanings for the phrase. I'd put up 50 bucks that a Greeks speaker wouldn't have had any problem with it.Mike Aubreyhttp://evepheso.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-11802280098759650532009-11-29T20:10:13.779-05:002009-11-29T20:10:13.779-05:00Good question.
The origin of the NIV, TNIV, &...Good question.<br /><br />The origin of the NIV, TNIV, & NIV20011 is all found in Biblica. Biblica commissioned the Committee on Bible Translation (CBT), who alone has authority to change the text of the NIV, TNIV, & NIV2011.<br /><br />Zondervan is the sole licensee of the NIV translation family <i>for North America</i>.<br /><br />Here's a length explanation directly from Stan Gundry:<br /><br /><a href="http://betterbibles.com/2009/03/31/the-production-of-the-tnivniv-bible-the-standard-of-integrity/" rel="nofollow">The Production of the TNIV/NIV Bible</a><br /><br />It's worth reading.Mike Aubreyhttp://evepheso.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-6297582740817947382009-11-29T14:58:00.334-05:002009-11-29T14:58:00.334-05:00I'm being somewhat light hearted, Mark. But t...I'm being somewhat light hearted, Mark. But that is one place where the translators did wear their theology on their sleaves. Like I emailed Moo in relation to several NIV passages, why not let the interpreter decide. "notable among the apostles" is ambiguous like the Greek. Why not let the reader decide?Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-36293944335688356892009-11-29T13:19:03.445-05:002009-11-29T13:19:03.445-05:00Entering back peddle mode!
Ken and Shaylin: are ...Entering back peddle mode! <br /><br />Ken and Shaylin: are you referring to "episemoi en tois apostolois."" (Sorry I don't know how to use a Greek font here) which the ESV translates as "well known to the apostles?"<br /><br />The other translations I looked at use "among the apostles." If this is what you are referring to that is problematic? If it is then I'm in full agreement with you! <br /><br />Are there any other major issues like this with the ESV?Mark Schnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00521939849864426818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-35131362826096969752009-11-29T03:16:18.549-05:002009-11-29T03:16:18.549-05:00I grew up on the NIV but when I encountered Wright...I grew up on the NIV but when I encountered Wright who is always shredding it (esp. Rom 3:21) I switched to the NRSV. I know Piper uses the ESV so that's reason enough for me to be suspicious of it.Marchttp://criticalbelief.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-61294313518428824892009-11-28T23:14:37.972-05:002009-11-28T23:14:37.972-05:00Forgot about Rom. 16:7... that's enough reason...Forgot about Rom. 16:7... that's enough reason to me not to use it :-)Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-91412021296304132372009-11-28T23:10:55.135-05:002009-11-28T23:10:55.135-05:00I agree that on the whole the ESV is a good transl...I agree that on the whole the ESV is a good translation. I'm not sure, though, that it has entirely escaped harm from its political origins. There are a few places where what seems to me an inferior (or even problematic) translation appears to have been chosen specifically to undercut egalitarian arguments based on it. The best example I can think of off the top of my head is Romans 16:7. Unfortunately, those few bad appls spoil the whole bushel for me, and I tend to avoid the ESV because of it.Shaylinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10284885669467260512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-75818270716945217062009-11-28T22:42:32.854-05:002009-11-28T22:42:32.854-05:00Mike, what is the precise relationship between Zon...Mike, what is the precise relationship between Zondervan and Biblica? I know Zondervan got the flack for the TNIV. Did it commission Biblica to make these translations? I know it also sells the NRSV although it didn't commission it.Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-80735852668477513972009-11-28T21:38:05.027-05:002009-11-28T21:38:05.027-05:00Ken, they're not Zondervan's translations....Ken, they're not Zondervan's translations. They're IBS/Biblica's -- supporting IBS = supporting Bible translation work around the world (as is supporting the NLT).Mike Aubreyhttp://evepheso.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-66218773343070776452009-11-28T20:41:11.192-05:002009-11-28T20:41:11.192-05:00Norman,
I look at the wine as the spirit of man/ho...Norman,<br />I look at the wine as the spirit of man/holy spirit coming to maturity, where the old wineskin is outgrown, in however that "tradition" was understood.<br /><br />Tradition serves a purpose but is not THE purpose. Man is the purpose.<br /><br />Tradition is whatever one depends on for "truth". Truth is resident in man through the use and development of his reason, gifts and talents. <br /><br />So, the only reason to worry about another is if they do not have the proper encouragement to develop whatever they need to...Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-75829059257382253892009-11-28T20:29:01.467-05:002009-11-28T20:29:01.467-05:00At what point do those who confuse the wineskins w...At what point do those who confuse the wineskins with the wine cease being Evangelicals? Not much Good News just chewing on them instead of drinking the contents. Pitying them is appropriate, I guess, but I'm a lot more concerned about those who are misguided by them.Norman Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12925113525836315536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-62264239679997695772009-11-28T19:52:32.959-05:002009-11-28T19:52:32.959-05:00Come on, Ken. You know you can't bring yoursel...Come on, Ken. You know you can't bring yourself to give in to the ESV because Piper loves it so much. ;-)<br /><br />Seriously though, that was one of my hang ups about using it but I finally started to. I use it as my default english version in Bibleworks and have even been using it in my personal Bible reading.Mark Schnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00521939849864426818noreply@blogger.com