tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post8081669326946936511..comments2024-03-17T10:13:20.234-04:00Comments on Common Denominator: Bertrand Russell on SpinozaKen Schenckhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-41161548389527236952019-02-04T13:02:13.680-05:002019-02-04T13:02:13.680-05:00Where have I forbidden such? You do not know me an...Where have I forbidden such? You do not know me and embarrass yourself by unexamined assumptions.Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-955536326398550162019-02-04T12:54:39.489-05:002019-02-04T12:54:39.489-05:00Forbidding certain discourses on the part of other...Forbidding certain discourses on the part of others based on your own religious views, the openly arrogant and unSocratic belief that you're making people "better" , oversimplifications of Descartes , all based only on what you find "distasteful" yet deliver in the most disrespectful manner. While I agree with your points mostly, you're just the opposite of what Bertrand Russell calls Spinoza: utterly unlikable.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09212324433906451242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-10023897532259504252015-07-27T12:06:55.355-04:002015-07-27T12:06:55.355-04:00@Ken
How is my response bizarre?
The grouping o...@Ken<br /><br />How is my response bizarre? <br /><br />The grouping of Spinoza may not have originated with you, but as an academic, you're still responsible for clearing the waters. This is like saying, "The term 'nigger' didn't originate with me, but I'm going to use it since that is how they were/are referred." <br /><br />As academics, it is our responsibility to continually filter out any impurities, which is why I called out you. I am just trying to make you, and your readers, better. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-55667576151654264282015-07-26T17:57:44.903-04:002015-07-26T17:57:44.903-04:00What a bizarre response, brndnjtkn. The grouping o...What a bizarre response, brndnjtkn. The grouping of Spinoza with Descartes and Leibniz doesn't originate with me, nor was there any disrespect intended for Spinoza or Russell. I have respect for all thinkers who are trying to be objective, whether they believe in God or not. There is no tone of disrespect toward atheists in any of my comments above. Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-18675142823610980822015-07-26T17:37:20.882-04:002015-07-26T17:37:20.882-04:00I have difficulty swallowing your comment towards ...I have difficulty swallowing your comment towards Spinoza being a pantheist. If your point is to make clear that Spinoza did not believe in a anthropomorphic god, then you are correct; however, pantheism is a muddled term in and of itself, and something that I would not use to describe Spinoza--especially since he held no "awe" towards Nature or God. <br /><br />I also find it distasteful that you put Descartes and Leibniz in the same boat as Spinoza. The former two were not true rationalists, that is, they eventually adopted Medieval tactics to defend their positions. It was Spinoza that saw rationalism through and through; hence, the rightful title as the "Father of Modern Philosophy." Descartes and Leibniz were, in fact, Medievalists. <br /><br />I am not sure what the purpose of your post is, but I cannot stomach the fact that you poorly season such a unique, inspirational thinker. I don't think you have adequately read Spinoza through and through. If so, please update this post. <br /><br />One other thing, someone with a religious agenda such as yourself has no business discussing anything other than religion. You label Spinoza an atheist, sure. But, you, too, are an atheist in that I doubt you view Muhammad as the true, last prophet, thus denying Christ as God incarnate. Atheism holds little water and is such a grotesque term to use when describing someone whom you poorly understand. Please, be more courteous to one of the brightest, most original thinkers since the invention of cuneiform. With that in mind, stick to defending your faith against other faiths, Islam, for example. You should be concerning yourself with Al-Farabi, Averroës, and Ibn Sina for Christianity would be less interesting without their writings. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-55253628895148598722008-07-23T17:20:00.000-04:002008-07-23T17:20:00.000-04:00I think it is quite possible to justify laws apart...I think it is quite possible to justify laws apart from God, just not intrinsic rights. If a tyrant can live his entire life oppressing and killing everyone who gets in his way, be happy, and die at peace in his bed, I see no way from an atheistic standpoint to say he is wrong to do so.<BR/><BR/>However, most people will not thrive or be happy in such cases. It is in the best interest of us the masses to contract together as a society to keep such rogues from taking power. But in an atheist system, if one of us has the good fortune to become more powerful than the others, there is little reason to agree to surrender that power just so that others can be happy.<BR/><BR/>In the absence of God, I see no way other than that of Machiavelli and Nietzsche. I find the ethical wheel spinning of so many atheist philosophers today only so much foolishness. Everything has already been said on that topic.Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-22246758632403551302008-07-23T15:02:00.000-04:002008-07-23T15:02:00.000-04:00Laws uphold the structure of society, but do not n...Laws uphold the structure of society, but do not neccesarily have to be maintained by belief systems of "god". The form of government is at issue. <BR/>In representative republics, the elected are chosen to uphold laws that protect the people (for the people and by the people). Unless one is a theocratic absolutist (like Islam) where laws are implemented for "God's honor",and in the "name of virtue" then there must be freedom of conscience. Otherwise, we might as well stone the adultress, cut off the arms of thieves, pull the eyes out of pornographers and kill the homosexual...because they are not healthy for society...This is a state with no mercy or grace, as far as difference.And it is legislated by an absolute view of virtue and text....<BR/><BR/>As far as rights go, then, rights are garunteed by reason's assessment of "order" and that does imply that the one's who don't obey the powerful (Machvelli?) will be "done away"...so the laws are to be balanced by the three branches of our government. Paul himself appealed to his Roman citizenship..."beneficial" instead of moderation, I suppose?....I thought moderation was the understanding of Aristotle, as well as virtue...because without freedom to develop moderation, there can be no growth in wisdom or virtue, which is based on self-governance.Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-7529212700959535602008-07-23T11:17:00.000-04:002008-07-23T11:17:00.000-04:00Craig, how's life? Good to hear from you!I was pe...Craig, how's life? Good to hear from you!<BR/><BR/>I was pegging Aristotle as an empiricist, although I'm having trouble finding an alleged quote to that effect in the <I>Metaphysics</I>.<BR/><BR/>Angie, the nuclear particle thing was meant in the absence of God. In an atheistic world, most human beings will still act within certain parameters because society gives them an incentive to follow its laws. In an atheistic world, we might say that most people are superficially determined to obey the most important laws of the land and that nuclear indeterminacy doesn't contravene.<BR/><BR/>However, in an atheistic world, those who are superficially determined to violate central laws are removed from "healthy" societies. In an atheistic world, language of responsibility is really irrelevant. In an atheistic world no one has any intrinsic rights and those societies that thrive will inevitably remove and have removed any individuals who impede its health.<BR/><BR/>In the words of Dostoevsky, "If there is no God, then everything is permissible." But even in an atheist world, the words of Paul continue to apply: "... but not everything is beneficial."Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-713886344133825662008-07-23T10:17:00.000-04:002008-07-23T10:17:00.000-04:00So, do nuclear particles have any "responsibility"...So, do nuclear particles have any "responsibility"? If people are only nuclear particles, then, our wills themselves are only a function of my brain's physicality. And since physicality is determined (by "God"?), then, no one has responsiblity for their actions. There therefore is no moral order or accountability. And the "function" of any communication is only the manifestation of the physicality of my brain's particular function in expressing my unique determinitive "teleos".<BR/><BR/>I can agree that we are genetically very distinct, as science has borne that out. But, our uniqueness is such that each individual is fully unique, not only in the actual physical but the experiential. And though I agree that reason can be a "reason" to understand, there is a "reality" of experience that yells louder than "reason" at times. Sometimes I wonder if our uniqueness is due to our personalities and experiences such that we formulate or interpret the same facts differently. There is no commonality except in substance...So, in social structures, how do we understand what "spiritual formation" should be about? Certainly, Jesus is not the ONLY moral model...But, in hierarchal systems theory, it seems to me that the highest escheolons of the system do have to "determine" or "plan" what the function of each part of the system will be (just as God the Father "determined" or willed Jesus "fate" of the "cross")...And how can humans determine or plan another's teleos, when we are so unique in our genetic expression that no two individuals are alike (that presupposes indetermanacy)...We can't reduce it to our physicality,or social systems theory can we?<BR/><BR/>(I am not being antagonistic, although I am a little baffled at how to understand)(By the way, I believe there is always contingency, that is why we can't plan "ultimates", unless we believe that we can predict someone's "take" on what has been planned. Goals of "teleos" cannot "determine" others unless the others are informed, like God with Jesus or the "Freedom of Information Act" as with our government. This is just.)Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-45939524609528739632008-07-23T09:28:00.000-04:002008-07-23T09:28:00.000-04:00If we surrender the idea of a God who provides fre...If we surrender the idea of a God who provides freedom of will, I think we are left with a world of ultimate indeterminacy, where what happens is superficially determined but ultimately random. Either way, what I take to be my freedom is really the whims and fortunes of nuclear particles. Of course there are also conceptions of God in which He does not provide freedom of will.Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-28207616407759906822008-07-23T09:16:00.000-04:002008-07-23T09:16:00.000-04:00The highest form of wickedness is control of anoth...The highest form of wickedness is control of another. As Kant believed that people are never to be used as a means, but are the end in themselves. Presumption upon another's graciousness is demeaning, for it does not walk circumspectly concerning the other, nor does it take the other seriously. <BR/>Control, manipulation, experiementation lead to questions about God's personalbility. It is not a question of bitterness, but it becomes impossible at some point to believe in a personal God, unless one believes in a God who is demanding and controlling, when it comes to virtue.<BR/>This was the case with Hirshi Ali, the author of "Infidel", who is an avowed atheist. It is a fantastic book.Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.com