tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post6583785568292116073..comments2024-03-28T09:52:15.415-04:00Comments on Common Denominator: Pragmatism (IWU Coffee Talk)Ken Schenckhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-43295528985265478762011-09-11T11:31:14.379-04:002011-09-11T11:31:14.379-04:00Yes, Ken, this IS true!
One's presuppositions...Yes, Ken, this IS true!<br /><br />One's presuppositions that are considered "biblical" are the Western view in Augustine, as a supernatural realm, where the poliical world has nothing or little to do with the "spiritual one". But, the Western view has a certain view about man and nature.<br /><br />The Eastern view of "perfecting man" is "perfecting the earth", which is also presuppositional. One has to assume certain things about man and nature.<br /><br />Arminians believe in free will and choice as a value, as man is "created in God's image", as a free moral agent. "God" is a leadership model of "perfecting man". And it has to do with how one understands Trinitarianism, and monotheism. Organizational leadership also has something to do with the "pragmatism" that is talked about in this post.<br /><br />Our country was a model of government that allows for free moral agency in choice and believes in the equality of man with one another. The basis of such equality are our laws. The basis of the Enlightenment aspect to our Founding was that man's intellectual nature, his reason, could be also developed, allowing for "free choice" as to vocation. Such presuppositions leave no doubt that "God" is not intervening, but that man, by his choices, is to intervene in society.<br /><br />The "language is metaphorical", but the results are "real" political commitments of value. So, education is a value to those that see or understand that man's nature is not just "spiritual". Man is a wholistic person, not segmented parts. This is why wha one believes to be true, one's understanding of life, does impact what one chooses to do....<br /><br />The question is not really about "God", in the supernatural sense, but "God" as in leadership, government, and one's own personal evaluations about what one's passion in life is.Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-14543725818214705662011-09-11T00:37:29.421-04:002011-09-11T00:37:29.421-04:00Actually, it was at the point of what Martin consi...Actually, it was at the point of what Martin considered a "biblical worldview" that his system deconstructed because we have to have presuppositions to interpret the Bible. He claimed to get his presuppositions from the Bible but actually, what he saw in the Bible was a result of presuppositions that derived from outside the Bible, namely, I suspect, a certain sectarian stream of Reformed theology.Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-45290080558870848702011-09-10T23:34:18.456-04:002011-09-10T23:34:18.456-04:00Anon,
Do you remember how Dr. Martin used to say &...Anon,<br />Do you remember how Dr. Martin used to say "biblical Christian"? He had valid reason for describing his "worldview" as biblical. The basis of his worldview was Scripture.<br /><br />The implicaton is that there are other kinds of Christians. Don't you think they have just as much integrity, but are just "grounded" or find their "answers" differently than Scrpture?Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-50071699368327111872011-09-10T20:40:34.624-04:002011-09-10T20:40:34.624-04:00I don't doubt Dr. Martin's integrity.I don't doubt Dr. Martin's integrity.Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-9310234364102964932011-09-10T19:01:56.335-04:002011-09-10T19:01:56.335-04:00Dr. Martin was a better man and had more integrity...Dr. Martin was a better man and had more integrity than you could ever hope to have. And the regurgitation issue is not true. He didn't want that. And you could get good grades if you disagreed and had actually though through why you disagreed and made sense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-220607684813886622011-09-03T12:57:29.165-04:002011-09-03T12:57:29.165-04:00All of these experiences and understandings are to...All of these experiences and understandings are tolerated n our country, as long as one is abiding by the laws of our nation!<br /><br />Pragmatism lends itself to scientific investigation, not some theologizing about "God". Pragmatism is utlitarian and focused on ends of profit margins. Therefore, practical needs trump everything else, when push comes to shove. And such solutions are political solutions, which our country has negotiated with other countries in diplomatic efforts.Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-38319326270867453142011-09-03T12:18:37.664-04:002011-09-03T12:18:37.664-04:00Anon,
Yes, and this is the dilemma, isn't it? ...Anon,<br />Yes, and this is the dilemma, isn't it? what is the Wesleyan identity? not too sure myself....<br />Pragmatism has lent itself to various "theologies" and understandngs about "God"....which William James wrote about early in this century (wasn't it)...<br /><br />So, now we have the intersection of experience (culture) and reason (how one rationalizes or understands faith) is such an academic endeavor throught the disciplines, or is it some esoteric adventure ....various understandings and various experiences...Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-62475838030037580362011-09-03T10:54:39.983-04:002011-09-03T10:54:39.983-04:00Finally wesleyans coming around to evolution. now ...Finally wesleyans coming around to evolution. now if we could just get rid of the ridiculous idea of Christ rising from the dead and admit that that to is a myth we might enter this century. He lives in us thru his ideas and example. nothing ore.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-33586299743956931382011-08-26T12:30:38.925-04:002011-08-26T12:30:38.925-04:00FrGregACCA,
Aaahh, now we are talking about separa...FrGregACCA,<br />Aaahh, now we are talking about separation of church and state..? like Roman Catholicism in the Middle Ages, where religious wars were fought over the "moral code" under "God's rule"???!!!!<br /><br />NO, I would rather agree with Kohlburg's assessment of Moral Government being our Civil Government that allows for liberty of conscience concerning "religious values"!!!<br /><br />Kohlburg's model says that the conventional level morality is the "status quo" of religious tradition. This is where "family values" are recognized. But, strict adherence to "family values" leaves little room for life's tragic "ends" sometimes....unless you are part of a "good ole boy system"....<br /><br />I would rather have a civil State that values liberty, than a "moral monster" that overintends the personal! I have friends that can do that for me! I don't need some "church official" doing that!!Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-84515717165349773462011-08-26T11:36:17.731-04:002011-08-26T11:36:17.731-04:00Angie, the "moral government" view of th...Angie, the "moral government" view of the Atonement (really simply another variant of Anselmian satisfaction) has absolutely nothing to do with the state per se, as discussed in Romans 13.FrGregACCAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00368463715994694203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-3860622202855105162011-08-26T10:17:27.046-04:002011-08-26T10:17:27.046-04:00And futhermore, those nurses will have their licen...And futhermore, those nurses will have their license on the line if they mis-step. So shouldn't we value the procedural method of educating for the sake of making an excellent "product" and not just for the $$$?<br /><br />When you talk of biblical worldview. I have to agree! There is NO such thing!!! Evangelicals have a CULTURE that sanctions certain theological tenets, but such is not valueing the individual, as much as promoting an ideology about "God"...and do we want to promote such ideology when religion is the culprit of so many conflicts over and about "God"?!<br /><br />The Wesleyan view of atonement, is the "Moral Government" view, isn't it? The problem there is Rom. 13 as an absolute. We honor those in authority as long as they comply with the value within a "moral government". Otherwise, we resist and isnt' this the Tea Party movement?Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-75077284256295193342011-08-26T10:13:58.740-04:002011-08-26T10:13:58.740-04:00I do believe in truth for its own sake. I support...I do believe in truth for its own sake. I support funding for pure research and for there to be scholars pursuing beautiful things that do not have obvious benefit. But of course in the allocation of resources, these sorts of pursuits simply cannot be the bulk of where funding goes. It's a question of priorities in education. The "quadrant 4" things of Stephen Covey (not urgent, not important) are not bad, just should be the last priority.Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-10526596625326662352011-08-26T10:08:25.072-04:002011-08-26T10:08:25.072-04:00Perhaps, a finger is put on the pulse of America, ...Perhaps, a finger is put on the pulse of America, as we are drven by the ends of money.<br /><br />What if there are other ends that are just as important to "get there" or to produce more opportunity to make money? What about the benefits or results upon society?<br /><br />Scholars believe that their expertise of knowledge is valued because their end met some standard. And now they sell it in the "market".<br /><br /> If we lower the standard and give degrees to those that don't really have the knowledge base, what will that do to our society? <br /><br />Practically in areas of practical knowledge such as nursing and medicine, it will put lives in danger. Will the diploma be worth the price of the paper its printed on? (of course med schools miight be a buffer, as no one will get accepted without credibility!)Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-71708753472082085492011-08-26T09:59:22.607-04:002011-08-26T09:59:22.607-04:00You're right, Angie. These are only proverbs, ...You're right, Angie. These are only proverbs, and great movements require a perfect storm of factors. I believe IWU had that perfect storm these last 10-20 years.Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-64987225544503778022011-08-26T09:44:52.904-04:002011-08-26T09:44:52.904-04:00The enteupernuers have to sell their idea to inves...The enteupernuers have to sell their idea to investors and those that will comply with their "vision" in bringng it to fruition....otherwise, it is again, "pie in the sky"! <br /><br />I have a LOT of ideas about science, but when I tell my husband who is a scientist, he tells me it won't work. Should I continue to believe that my ideas are worth pursuing? (Obviously, shallow education with pragmatic results ($$$), is better than not gettng the results? ;-)).<br /><br /> Those that have the expertise (or details) have to 'see' or understand that an idea can even get off the ground, practically. And wouldn't that be the right of the person with the expertise to decide whether that is even what s/he want to invest his time on? or in? And is such an endeavor a value they hold?Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.com