tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post5664591532866297442..comments2024-03-28T09:52:15.415-04:00Comments on Common Denominator: Love Neighbor 2Ken Schenckhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-73779582102418473452010-12-12T22:55:46.224-05:002010-12-12T22:55:46.224-05:00Correction: we need to take precaution...Correction: we need to take precaution...Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-45767466188040252892010-12-12T22:54:36.411-05:002010-12-12T22:54:36.411-05:00My husband and I have talked about that. And this ...My husband and I have talked about that. And this is what some may want, so that most of us will be dependent on their "charity". <br /><br />Isn't this what happened in the French Revolution? And what about what is happening in England and Greece right now, on a smaller level? Will we go back to trading services to each other? growing our own food? learning survival skills, as it concerns cold and heat? I don't know, as I don't want to overreact, or become a doomssayer....but we also don't need to take precaution...Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-47458768628995469102010-12-12T22:42:04.713-05:002010-12-12T22:42:04.713-05:00Angie,
Wonder what happens when the national debt ...Angie,<br />Wonder what happens when the national debt eventually renders all of us needy? :)JohnMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-23346815969905223212010-12-12T22:35:18.778-05:002010-12-12T22:35:18.778-05:00JohnM,
I know what happens to those that are "...JohnM,<br />I know what happens to those that are "enabled" by the "hero", the "co-dependent", etc. It doesn't do anyone any good to help those who refuse to help themselves, or refuse to learn from their mistakes. It takes wisdom to be a good steward when it comes to these kinds of "needs". "" the whole world is in need. One could spend their life endlessly trying to make inroads into poverty, and die with more to do. Povery has become a political issue that gets politicians "voted in" and more taxes that they can spend with little accountability. (other than gettting voted out)...but the debt that accumulates because of such spending continues its effects on our economy. This makes slaves of us all to the national debt!Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-12337155791708422012010-12-12T22:22:00.840-05:002010-12-12T22:22:00.840-05:00JohnM,
You make some good points.
I don't hav...JohnM,<br />You make some good points.<br /><br />I don't have any resistance to helping the poor.(I've just worked on selling White House ornaments for the needy). I DO have a resistance to anyone telling me what is appropriate for me to do or not do, as it concerns the poor. That is like affirming redistribution of wealth, though it is distribution of 'charity' as deemed appropriate by some social program.<br /><br />And I agree that Churches don't for the most part deny the reality of real needs, or social issues. I don't want to be determined. That is objectifying me, where my personal interests and concerns are irrelavant. That is subservience to beauracratic interferrence with the personal...Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-61553863232714700622010-12-12T19:56:03.552-05:002010-12-12T19:56:03.552-05:00Overreaction to unbelief and abandonment of the sp...Overreaction to unbelief and abandonment of the spiritual gospel for the social gospel is part of the explanation for Christian indifference (relatively speaking) to helping the needy. But maybe that isn't, as Paul Harvey used to say, "the rest of the story".<br /><br />The social gospel enjoyed some success and so came big time government involvement in helping the needy. This may have created the impression that things like assistance to the needy are secular concerns, since what the government does is supposed to be secular. No need to add any Christian ingredients.<br /><br />Then public assistance came to be understood as entitlement. Entitlements are benefits enjoyed by virtue of being (supposedly) in an entitled category. The entitled compete with, and are among, all manner of special intrest groups lobbying for public and private funding. The needy then are seen as no more special than any of the others. A Christian may well wonder what any of this has to do with discipleship.<br /><br />Of course it very often happens that Christian indifference to the truly needy is exaggerated. I've moved around a lot in my life and attended or visited a lot of churches, and of different denominations. I've yet to come across one that was entirely indifferent to need and suffering.JohnMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-5742580911126867382010-12-12T18:33:33.627-05:002010-12-12T18:33:33.627-05:00After re-reading my post, I recognize that it does...After re-reading my post, I recognize that it doesn't seem to connect with "Love of neighbor". What I am trying to say is that how we understand faith has a lot to do with how we understand "how to love our neighbor", since the Christian tradition affirms love of neighbor.<br /><br />It seems that you don't leave any room for another way to understand "love of neighbor". Love of neighbor is just as much about what we DON"T do, as what we DO, do. Government should not be about what we Do, do, but about what we Don't do...individual choice should be about what we choose to do...that is liberty of conscience in regards to love of neighbor. Otherwise, we co-erce a social program upon the individual.<br /><br />On the other hand, others would impose a supernaturalistic answer to "love of neighbor". This is also inappropriate.<br /><br />Liberty of individual conscience protected by the boundaries of law, must be THE value to uphold to protect our free society. Because without liberty none of us will be protected from co-ercion and corruption.Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-24320139193131692212010-12-12T18:23:07.707-05:002010-12-12T18:23:07.707-05:00The question you pose, "how does one understa...The question you pose, "how does one understand their faith", is one that has to be grappled with IF one concerns themselves with religion, as a personal endeavor.<br /><br />Is religion culture specific? Is religion universal? Is religion inclusive/exclusive? Where does the nation-state (modernity) dissolve, diminish or affirm religious conviction? These are issues for our country regarding Church and State.<br /><br />Some traditions believe that one should represent right behavior, other right belief...and one's belonging has a lot to do with how one interprets belief and behavior.<br /><br />You argue for the Weselyan tradition's behavior affirmation supplementing the prophetical message to take care of the poor. But, this is not the way that consevative Lutherans, Calvinists, Anabaptists understand their tradition, as theirs is a supernaturalistic understanding of and to their faith. Would the conservative/liberal tradition within the Wesleyan tradition be similar (naturalism/supernaturalism)?<br /><br />Religion is how one frames their understanding of faith. The question for me is about liberty not as much about faith. Faith without (political) liberty is 'hope in the by and by", or the "Big Man in the sky", which is no hope at all. So, liberty comes first. I affirm the right to dissent, because I believe in the "consent of the governed". <br /><br />Liberty is about government/leadership, not the State. The State is absent liberty because it absents "God" from any frame of reference. Political liberty means that those that want to affirm religion, can have that liberty and must have that liberty. It is the right of man to have such liberty of conscience in how they will or won't choose to worship God.Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.com