tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post2851685683995963771..comments2024-03-28T09:52:15.415-04:00Comments on Common Denominator: 3.4 Progressive Revelation in the OTKen Schenckhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-38700848157377712922012-07-09T10:05:31.032-04:002012-07-09T10:05:31.032-04:00You are only getting the brunt of the hostility an...You are only getting the brunt of the hostility and anger toward myself for believing such things!!! I was the stupid one!!Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-12547413543965128972012-07-09T07:00:15.029-04:002012-07-09T07:00:15.029-04:00Angie, please try not to string out these aftertho...Angie, please try not to string out these afterthoughts. You get off track anyway in your first comment (no matter what I'm talking about, your second paragraph almost always turns to liberty, people who believe in God are stupid, baseball, apple pie, and Chevrolet). Then you trickle two or three more afterthoughts in a stream of consciousness far removed from anything, to where I can have 7 comments under ANY post of mine all of which are you talking about a few of your favorite things. PLEASE try only to make one comment at a time unless it's REALLY on topic.Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-38570646690659533092012-07-09T00:14:56.542-04:002012-07-09T00:14:56.542-04:00Our laws were to protect us FROM another's pas...Our laws were to protect us FROM another's passions, that might bring damage. Stealing is not just about material possessions...neither is killing just a matter of bodily injury. Our courts were to value privacy and the personal, as individuals have that right to defend and protect their lives. Our bodies and everything that pertains to them are ours by right.Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-7954891678657737212012-07-08T23:17:07.256-04:002012-07-08T23:17:07.256-04:00and someone's "morality" is another&...and someone's "morality" is another's legalism...Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-40303335157443192652012-07-08T23:14:57.985-04:002012-07-08T23:14:57.985-04:00Ken,
"God looks on the heart" has many p...Ken,<br />"God looks on the heart" has many problems, because when we form or frame our understanding of life and reality, then we function within that frame, which is limiting and defining itself. (You've termed it "metaphors we live by") This is why some women choose to look for their MRS. degree before they look for or invest in their educational and personal developmental goals. Their personal value and worth is depedent on whether they have changed their last name!..sad story there....<br /><br />Then, there are those that believe that unless their understanding of reality is everyone's because they have the answers for all time and all people, God will judge on Judgment Day and they will be held accountable! Such fear drives human action to do things that might not otherwise be thought conscientable. These do not believe in liberty of consicence, but a moralistic framing that hinders diverse views, understandings or ways to debate about public policy issues. Black and white it is and nothing else enters into discussion. There is an aversion to any talk of change, or differences of value.<br /><br />So, I do not think that furthering such goals as "Gods Kingdom" is right headed, even if it is right hearted...and the moralists would be the first to admit that one's head and not one's passions should drive one's choices and commitments about sexual alliances, not knowing that their own passions drive them in other areas...apart from knowlege. But, then, most of us will be and are driven by passions, as that is what liberty is about, the freedom to be and to do...it is just that someone's liberty is another's license.....Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-67827445876099310022012-07-08T20:26:24.551-04:002012-07-08T20:26:24.551-04:00You guys are asking tough questions!
1. I think w...You guys are asking tough questions!<br /><br />1. I think we use figurative interpretation of a sort all the time. Charismatics and old time revivalist Wesleyans didn't think twice to hear a word from the Lord in a passage that was a fuller meaning. Sometimes they were wrong of course. Then some of us got educated and wanted to shut that sort of interpretation down. It can be a both/and, I believe.<br /><br />2. The Jesus question is very difficult indeed. We know Jesus wasn't omniscient on earth because he tells us so in Mark 13, but here we are talking of incorrect assumptions. This is where some find the issue too thorny and go with traditional authorship. There are other options that are also not attractive--e.g., that Jesus didn't exactly say it this way but the gospel writers filled in the blanks with their understanding. Or did Jesus himself know these things and yet work within the assumptions of his audiences, with a twinkle in his eye? It is very, very difficult. <br /><br />3. JM, it seems to me that God takes his time on matters of full understanding. It doesn't seem a big priority to him, which might require us to reexamine our priorities. "God looks on the heart."<br /><br />I don't have perfect answers, I'm afraid...Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-81182712832660005242012-07-08T17:54:32.291-04:002012-07-08T17:54:32.291-04:00The "kenosis passage" is for those that ...The "kenosis passage" is for those that choose it for themselves, as a value, unless we want to promote a static society where roles, functions and outcomes are determined by elites in government. <br />Such a system is a caste system where people are not free, but determined. And the middle class has no chance, because the doors are closed "at the top" and the only way to go is "down" in class status. <br />Such a scenario keeps the "peasants" at bay struggling to survive, as the middle class surcumbs to the "war on poverty" so that the "elite's" policy demands which form tax policy "bleeds them dry".Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-35670368974823382272012-07-08T16:46:59.479-04:002012-07-08T16:46:59.479-04:00Do you think the theory that the 'fall' so...Do you think the theory that the 'fall' so damaged man that God had to come down to where man was.....to speak as if man were a savage or totally ignorant has any merit? I'm not saying this as clearly as I would like; but I think you can understand my thought. Progressive revelation was needed, therefore, because we can only handle so much truth at a time. Again this is simplistic, but I--a non theologian--am trying to get my head around how to correctly understand scripture, with all the implications that modern scholarship brings to the table.John Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00060404930391236792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-26829651861173557762012-07-08T16:14:38.566-04:002012-07-08T16:14:38.566-04:00Ken,
Please expand on the use of allegorical inter...Ken,<br />Please expand on the use of allegorical interpretations and the inductive Bible method? For example, how should we understand the OT today(e.g. more analagous to the allegorical method of Philo or some of the church fathers)? How would you explain to a Wesleyan congregation that Jesus could have been ignorant about the authors of the OT(e.g. that he was a fallible human in his epistemology)? How would that relate to Phil 2:5-11? <br />Any assistance is appreciated.John C. Gardnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-38633638082932895822012-07-08T15:56:41.338-04:002012-07-08T15:56:41.338-04:00While government was to be limited under Constitut...While government was to be limited under Constitutional restraints, government was to defend against "empowered tyrannizing" majorities. The individual was allowed the liberty/right to define for himself, what he was to do or be apart from another's interference. This is where "tribal identifications" can hinder personal growth. Jews, Christans and Muslims have had traditions of "shaming", "shunning" and osterization when individuals have gone "outside the box" of their definitions of what is considered the defining "formula" of their tradition's framework....But such behavior is also the "political climate" of liberal ideologies that protect the rights of "elites", at the costs of the middle class or those thought to be pawns to manipulate for certain pet policies.Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-43850587874452358802012-07-08T12:42:44.909-04:002012-07-08T12:42:44.909-04:00Christianity is a religion, period. Humans use &qu...Christianity is a religion, period. Humans use "God" as a way to describe reality, when reality is really only a projection of one's epistomological foundations. How do we know what we know?<br /><br />Science says we know through observation, hypothesis, experimentation, while religion believes that "God reveals" through texts and "tradition handed down" by the "fathers". <br /><br />Psychological and educational sciences believe that humans develop through mentoring and cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance makes humans seek after or defend and protect their "valued" epistomological foundation. One is closed to further information, while the other is open to information. One's bias is going to be defend, either way.<br /><br />Tribal thinking is "familial". One's identity is tied to one's family of origin and not a broader context. This is where "honor killing" is defended, as "honor" is the way that family's protect their name, and "heritage". Families are to pass down "the tradition" to their children....Similar thinking occurs quite often in Christian contexts! <br /><br />Honor and shame cultures are "taboo" (sin) oriented, because of the belief in "God's oversight" over nature, irregardless of whether it is henothistic or monotheistic! this is where humans define "evil" as "God's judgement" for "sin", instead of natural consequences, or contingent necessities, or chance happenings beyond human capacity to understand or make sense of things....<br /><br />Constitutional government is a govenment that protects or defends differences of opinion concerning epistomological concerns, as it does not establish a religous tradition and it does not define epistomological foundations. The public sphere was to remain limited over individual choice about epistomological issues. <br /><br />The "human" or "private" sphere is where libertarian thought is significant for government's oversight, because of humans being developmental creatures, as well a unique in their understandings about themselves, epistomological foundations, and "faith issues". Oppression and tyranny is "felt" when government does not allow for "space" or diversity, as to human choice.Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.com