tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post1968906198312348853..comments2024-03-28T09:52:15.415-04:00Comments on Common Denominator: G9. God's justice in the context of his love.Ken Schenckhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-82457409337910204092014-05-05T10:08:05.215-04:002014-05-05T10:08:05.215-04:00If you are saying that this statement is not givin...If you are saying that this statement is not giving the definition of justice in the Prophets, I completely agree. I am giving a philosophical/theological definition here.Ken Schenckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09745548537303356655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-33401672563609142802014-05-05T09:54:30.505-04:002014-05-05T09:54:30.505-04:00You make the statement: "Justice is nothing ...You make the statement: "Justice is nothing more than the appropriate consequences for human choices."<br /><br />While I would make much more detailed comment on other points in the essay, this point in particular is a negation of biblical justice. God's love overwhelms human sin such that, by way of the Cross, we do not receive our due. OT justice (mishpat) is far more than what we might think of as "comeuppance." NT justice is a working out of sacrificial, reconciliatory love (forgiveness and restoration) that is a perfect picture of righteousness, the fulfillment of divine justice.<br /><br />Where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more. God's redemptive posture, will, and action is infinitely greater than the collective sin of all humankind.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13730326902080263053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-73158456161561088172014-05-04T22:41:07.994-04:002014-05-04T22:41:07.994-04:00Whenever you set up God's Justice within God&#...Whenever you set up God's Justice within God's Love, then, you've chosen to set up a "redemptive" strand to "justice", which is about "grace"... the Catholic view that "nature is graced", instead of the "nature is against grace", or "nature is perfected by grace" affirms this view. <br /><br />If "nature is graced", then it is a matter of understanding what nature and what grace is/means.Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8355052.post-20472532800724202002014-05-04T21:26:03.793-04:002014-05-04T21:26:03.793-04:00Isn't your "bullet point" to justify...Isn't your "bullet point" to justify Christian "behavioral therapy"?<br /><br />The Church's understanding of "moral order" is the Law of God. And just as Steve DeNeff's sermon today, one must choose "life or death". God's law is "life", while any other understanding or way is "death". If one denies the Absolute, then one is "out from under" the protection of God (as Bill Gothard would affirm). Redemption of one's "sins" cannot happen apart from submitting to "the discipline of the Church" under God's sanctioned Authority. And, if one chooses death, then one is ultimately headed toward destruction and hell.<br /><br />It sounds as if one must conform oneself to a particular moral image, and moral authority, to be a Christian. That means that one is not developed apart from the paternalism (oversight) of the Church. Self determination is anathema to "life in God".<br />I disagree, as Egoism, is not egotism. One must love oneself, before they can love another. Self interest is of value, unless one wants to affirm co-dependency and annihlation of personhood. Therefore, understanding what one's passions are, are important. Steve DeNeff seemed to preach against passions, as ill-begotten and self-destructive.<br /><br />All passions are not destructive, but can be. It is only when the Church has particular definitions about "sanctification" that it becomes important to deny one's passions, as they are seen as limiting one's vision of "God" as the ULTIMATE or ONLY. <br /><br />I think if one chooses to believe in "God", then God is Big enough to encompass all of life, apart from sectarian, or "sacred" defintions.Angie Van De Merwehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12617299120618867829noreply@blogger.com